Kits and more Kits

[54Bernie54]

My future goal is to own a good quality flint. Options being, buy used, buy production, semi custom or kit.Cant afford hi end custom. Then I had an idea of trying my first low priced, first time friendly kit. Doing a good job ( hopfully ) then selling it for cost or mybe a small small profit. Doing this a few times till I can afford a high end kit with all the best parts.Assuming I do a good enough job on the first would dictate weather or not to try a second and so on. Has anyone ever taken this approch to ending up with a great quality gun?

 

[renovato]

I had a similar idea a while back. The problem with the kit guns is that buyers have a bit of distaste for them. Maybe they don't trust the builder or something. Anyway, even if your build comes out better than the factory assembled version, it's automatically worth less money. Considering that there isn't much price difference between factory built and a kit, I doubt if you could even make your money back on kits when you consider this. Kits are a great way to get some experience, and I definately encourage you to built a few. Just realize that you'll probably take a bit of a loss when you sell them.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

I bought the best parts possible and the wood was the most costly piece, because I had the swamped barrel inlayed, and the mortices cut.

If I ever did it agian, I'd do all that myself.

I dont know what you consider high end. Chambers kits at $700ish are one of the best kits you can get.

If you call MLS, the gals can fit you with a kit a cheaper, you will have to do a tad more work.

 

[rafterob]

The biggest problem I see with your idea is that once you have put the time in a kit and shot it you don't want to let it go, and then you end up with 4,5,6 rifles or more....it happens to the best of us :surrender:

 

[blacksmithman64]

hey, if your handy with tools, go for it! Just get a quality kit like Chambers, or Larry Zorn at The Mold and Gun Shop has some nice kits at a good price. I do not like track of the **** kits, I built one of them a couple years ago and the brass parts were junk and they sent the wrong buttplate.
I built my first rifle from a Golden Age Arms kit and it was a breeze.Too bad they closed shop...anyhow I wouldn't sell that rifle fer nuthin'even if it ain't the purtiest girl at the dance! :haha:

 

[Zonie]

I agree with the responses.

While the general public is often willing to spend quite a bit for a factory made "new" gun, these same folks will refuse to pay the same amount of money for a "kit", even if it is built far better than any of the factory guns.

Add to this that I consider any builder who is worth a darn owes it to the buyer to have test fired the gun to make sure it is working correctly and is sighted in.
As soon as the builder does this sighting in he can no longer truthfully say the gun is "new" (meaning to most folks "unfired").
That leads them to say, "Oh! This gun is used! I can get a brand new one for about the price you are asking", at which time they will turn and walk away.

I consider the Pecatonica River "kit" guns I've built to be excellent and everyone who has seen and handled them agree with me.
None of them are willing to pay much more than $200 over the initial kit cost and as many of these have over 130 hours of work in them that only pays me about $1.54 an hour.

You would be better off putting your pocket change in a jar and saving it up to buy a fine gun.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Back in the 70's( or was it early 80's, the mind is getting bad ) when Ohio first started primative deer season the local hardware shop would always run out of muzzle loaders and order in a few CVA kits which never came in until the season was over. After a few months of not selling them. I would make them a low ball offer, buy the kits assemble them and when deer season came around sell the guns with enough powwder, caps ,patches and balls for 25 rounds. This went on for about five years until the local Amish boys all got a gun. But right now I would not recommend trying to sell a kit gun at a profit, for your own use I would recommend it. There is no more satisfaction than using something you have made yourself, even if you had help in the form of a kit. We all started someplace!

 

[tg]

I would suggest comparing what is envolved in assembling a production kit and one of the parts sets from a well known supplier, then review the plan with all the facts about each choice available to you.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The way to sell that " used gun " is to put a target with the gun, in plastic, showing a good group fired at 50 yards, off a rest. List the load details. Polish the face of the frizzen, or install a brand new nipple on the gun if its a percussion. Then, on the sales ticket, simply explain that as the builder, you took the responsibility of test-firing the gun, to make sure it works, and to develop a good load for it.

Now, you are selling something far more valuable than a " New gun " and you won't have any trouble finding buyers.

The shoe goes on the other foot:

I can buy this new gun for "less", but I don't know what bugs if any are in it, or even if it will shoot, and I will have to spend lots of time developing a load for it.

OR, I can buy this NEW- Used-- gun that has been test fired, and the builder has worked up a good load for it using his experience as both a builder and shooter. I have his test target and the load information that he used to produce the group. That is far more value to me than the savings of a couple of hundred dollars to buy a New gun that won't be the moment I fire the first shot out of it.

 

[mykeal]

I'm with Paul on this to some extent. I'm a sucker for a good used gun with some 'provenance', as they say in antique society. The only caveat is that I have to be able to touch it, shoulder it, kind of have a conversation with it, if you know what I mean. If we get along, and if I also know that it performed for it's owner, well, that's a sale. Doesn't matter if it was a kit, a custom or a factory gun.

A new gun might feel good, might fit well, but the lack of a bit of successful use is a demerit. I don't mean to say I won't buy a new gun, but put one next to a happy, well used and used well specimen there's just no contest.

And to the original poster's question: nice theory, but the market is bereft of folks like me, so as a practical matter don't expect to finance a custom by 'flipping' kits. Save your pennies and buy the good one if you can.

 

[54Bernie54]

Thanks for all the replies, Very, good info as I knew there would be. Im thinking now to build an easy kit , probably keep it. But Pauls idea may work as well. Just go into it not with the main goal of selling it. then decide if I can take on a higher end kit as my real keeper. Thanks again.

 

[Pigman]

You may find you would be better off getting a job at McDonalds and saving that money to for your gun. It will take less time that building and selling 1 gun.

Foster From Flint

 

[tg]

Most likely building a dozen production level kits would not put a person in the position to take on a quality parts set from one of the top suppliers,you would be drilling all the holes inletting much of the furniture and the stock may be square ahead of the lock panel,production kits are fun to work with as you can end up with a gun that is a cut above the over the counter gun of the same type, good luck whatever you choose.

 

[wdbritt]

Do you have a web address for the Mold and Gun Shop? I ran a web search and came up dry.

Thanks, Warren :v

 

[Mulebrain]

From what I have learned, Jim Chambers provides the best gun kits around, for flintlock long rifles.

Unless your a very reputable builder, it will be much tougher to demand higher prices for your work!

Take on a second job, or sell something off to pay for the kit you want.

Take your time, and do it right. You can have a high end gun for a very fair price!

I personally have never done a kit gun, but might someday. I really admire those who jump into it!

 

[dyemaker]

I agree about Jim Chamber's kits. They are expensive though. Dunlap Woods has kits and they are a major wood scource so you might get better wood in general than other places offer. I think Petonica? River is the scource for carved stocks some other places like Track Of The Wolf offer so you get a stock directly and not one that has been sitting around in the warehouse. The barrel channel should be freshly cut or it is prone to warp. The barrel should be put in place very soon after it is cut. Gunstocks Plus has stocks and barrel inletting. You should consider length of pull etc. before you buy anything. It pays to do your homework first. Tiger Hunt has nice stocks and warclubs for sale. Clark Industries has a few kits and a lock. There are other places that sell kits but this is all that comes to mind at the moment. If you wanted to supply your own wood blank from somewhere else and have a stock carved or barrel inletted that may be an option. I recommend Chamber's locks because they are the best and cost about the same as inferior locks like L&R locks. You may have the option to skip the lock mortise and do it yourself if the company doe's not offer the lock you desire. Same with barrels but there are different profiles in swamped barrels and that should be considered if you want to omit barrel on your order in favor for another maker. I recommend Long Hammock barrels. You should decide if you want a swamped barrel, a straight taper barrel, or octagon to round barrel before you rush into anything. For an example, maybe you could buy a blank from Tiger Stripes, have it carved by Petonica? River and have a Long Hammock barrel made to order and then inletted at Gunstocks plus and then buy the other components or whatever or go with what is suppied in PR kits. Assembling your own rifle from various parts from various places is an option. The kits are usually historically correct but you can pick and choose different but correct parts on your own.It would cost you about $1000 for all the best. You would have to consider postage and handling not to mention the trouble but you would "have it your way". I learned all of this by reading comments in forums so I have done my homework. Hopes this makes some sense and helps you in some way.
:yakyak:

 

[rkmeyer]

For what it's worth I built my first flinter in 1963 from scratch. I used a Dixie barrel and lock. I made the rest of the parts. The gun came out pretty good and I won lots of stuff at local shoots. I sold that gun to a friend a few years later. I have tried several times to buy it back and he is still a good friend and also still owns the gun. My point being, after you put in your blood, sweat and tears you may want to keep it. There is a lot of satisfaction in what you produce with your own hands.
Just my experience. :2
Dusty :wink:

 

[Dphar]

Chambers Kits are the best I have seen. Much of the difficult stuff is done and everything is best quality.

Dan

 

[Fathertime]

Howdy, dyemakers' got the ticket.... I 've been looking over the net and talking to different companies researching the Isaac Haines and studying the Rifle on the Dan'l Boone series. I built a Lyman Great plains 40 years ago but someone out there said it was much more difficult to build a long rifle, so I've been on the lookout for a builder.... Jim Chambers apparently has contacts..FT

 

[BigBoreBLR]

I hate to say this, but look at some yotubue viedoes on how to make a gun.

There's kit that require light sanding, staining, and maybe finishing the barrel.

If you think you won't drill holes in a $200 barrel, file out dovetail holes and cut into expensive wood, then maybe get a factory kit.

I love my lyman GPR in 54 cal. Great shooter. Definitely something wildly different than any modern gun I owned.

Lyman makes kit guns as well. The sights are installed, the breechplug is in it, the barrel has it's wedge pin attachment, and the barrel is finished.

Most places can pu the mateal parts and have a pretty well inletted stock.

What I really suggest is to have a pre-made gun you can enjoy while you spend your time making the gun you want. If you don't have something already, then you may rush the job.