Knife sharpening.. whats your secret?

[crockett]

Well I am probably going to create a few comments but no one has talked about reducing the bevel of the blade. Some folks just have a natural talent for holding an angle and a razor sharp blade with a thirty degree angle is a lot stronger and stands up a lot better than a blade with a much thinner bevel BUT if you belong to the crowd that just can't get a razor edge, consider using a course stone and going to a reduced bevel. This takes a lot of work but once done you should be able to get a sharp edge. If you use a stone a leather strop will finish off that blade to shaving sharpness.

 

[roundball]

Since we're not just talking about 'patch knives', I'll chime in...

I have good quality whetstones, plus those sharpening pads with imbedded diamonds...both work well and are handy to have in the truck tool box when away from the house.

But at the house, the absolute fastest, best way I've ever found to sharpen knifes...particularly several knives at a time like sets of steak knives, kitchen knives, various hunting knives, and the machete I use to clear shooting lanes...is a good ole belt sander.

Using different grade sanding belts you can have a knife like a razor in less than a minute...size makes no difference...I keep my machete so razor sharp it'll slice down through 3-4" saplings with a single stroke like they're butter...one day I accidently let the edge of it drag lightly across my thigh and it sliced open the material of my jeans just from the weight of the blade...when it's freshly resharpened, the edge on that Ontario machete will shave hair.

I've used a little 2.5" Skill belt sander since the 70's...it's very fast and produces very sharp results on any size axe, hatchet, machete, belt knives, skinning knives, pocket knives, etc...3-4 different grade belts and you're all set.

 

A belt sander is outstanding but you can sure burn a blade if you leave it there too long.

Saw a knife maker complete all grinding and edge honing on a 10" Bowie using a 2x72 grinder with speed control. The final edge was done with low speed and slack belt using a micro-belt. The edge was a perfect mirror and so sharp it would split your breath... :shocking:

 

[onefeather]

my father uses a arkansaw stone and gets a good edge on it and my grandfather uses a regular one and gets a good edge ::

 

[plewis]

Hoyt, I have to go with you on the file method. A nice 6" fine cut flat file will make almost any knife like a razor. I have been in the service for almost 20 years and have had a need for a sharp kife more times than I can count. People dont always understand that a knife edge can be sharp in different ways. My belt knives,kneck knives and patch knives are sharpened with a fine file or a flat diamond hone. The fillet knives and kitchen stuff I do with a fine stone and leather. These will cut well, but the edge will clog easily on fatty tissue or tough wood/leather etc.. The file sharpened ones will rip through everything and when starting to get dull, can be touched up with 3-4 strokes of the file, back to razor sharp.

 

[rabbit03]

Well Wez I may as well put in my two cents worth here.

Personally I use the hard Arkansas stones all the way down to the infamous black stone. I always to manage to get a razor edge on mine. I will sometime use the leather strop with a bit of rouge too for the finish.

Now for the other knives I have to agree with Hoyt I like the double cut course bastard file. Now don't laugh untill you try it. If you keep within the same grooves you will end up with a serated edge that works like a saw it is incredible. I don't have any photos right now but I am sure I can find something around here to whittle down to post.

That was the system I had previously used meaning that now I have found another method. On another post I found out my hog lard idea wasn't much good for anything so now I use it exclusively for lube when sharpening my knives. It works great if you don't mind the smell when it heats up. When I start sharpening I really get into it and usually work up a lather with that file and lard.

Good luck

rabbit03

 

[3 stinky dogs]

Iuse somthing simeler to the one you ahve but I lost the clamp thing.I use wd-45 to as others have mentioned.Lately I have been useing small slabs of ceramic a frend gets from work.I would say its between a corse and fine and has it razer sharp in 4 or 5 strokes.

 

[sfruhwirth]

Cool... send a few my way!

:kid:

Sounds like something I may need to look for though.

 

[BS]

I use a mill file and then a steel.

The whole secret to sharpening without a clamp thingy is maintaining a "constant angle"!

Some of the new stainless blades are too hard to file, so I have used a big diamond plates. Coarse to extra fine.

I have a big blade made out of BG-42 stainless that I could never get shaving sharp till I used a large India stone and unscented Lamp oil, now it shaves!

Maintain a constant angle!

And finish with soft even strokes! :m2c:

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greeting All,

During one of my sabbathicals from the teaching bureacracy, I spent a few years working as an industrial machinery and accessory sales rep. Was mighty interesting and educational.

One thing learned was that the Behr-Manning India Sharpening Stone was specifically developed to sharpen stainless steel knives.

Carborumdum stones will gall the edge of a stainless steel knife.

Another fact is that an alloy steel with an RC OF 45 is at the point where it begins to lose the softness to be filed or machined with conventional high speed steel tools.

Most good knives today are heat treated in 52-58 RC range.

A valuable tip learned from one of my machine shop instructors was to imagine that the cutting edge of a knife has microscopic teeth like a saw blade.

The blade must be sharpened in such a manner that the teeth are aligned to point toward the handle. This means that when using a stone, start at the blade point and stroke toward the handle.

Think about that for a minute. when using a knife you are cutting toward the handle, like whittling on a stick. That is true unless for some reason you are pushing the knife forward.

Even when I am splitting the rib cage of a deer, the blade is angled back while I am pulling on the handle.

Very few knife cutting operations are done by pushing the knife point first.

Cutting with a knife is akin to cutting with a hacksaw. You cut on the forward stroke, not the back stroke. Which way are the hacksaw blade teeth pointing? Carpenter saw blade teeth are aligned pointing away from the handle.

Even circular saw blades and circular millimg machine cutters follow this principal.

Turn that blade the other way, and while you might cut for awhile, but you will quickly dull the blade. The same principle applies to a knife blade.

The thing that puzzles me is what are the guys doing that sharpen a knife on a flat stone using a circular motion?

Best regards.

John L. Hinnant

 

[rabbit03]

Hello JLH

magnificent post, and I applaud you on it.

Your description of how the teeth lined up on the cutting edge and I will definitley keep that in mind the next time I sharpen a knife. I usually start at the hilt area and then draw it toward the edge all the while drawing it acrosss the stone. And always looking for a better mousetrap I am sure to give it a try. Your vast wealth of knowlege in this area should be made note of here and I for one would promote you to the status of a .40 cal. kind of guy if it were up to me on this article alone. :master:

For my kitchen knives I use pretty much the same method as I described above and then as they start to lose a bit of their edge I will point them up with my smooth steel. Pointing up for those that do not know is nothing more than realigning the (teeth) as you point out. They are like the teeth of a hacksaw almost and pointing up the blade is merely bringing those teeth back in alignment with each other by using the steel. I am sure you are aware of this fact being quite informed as you are. This way I only have to actually sharpen the knives on my stones when the blades become really dull.

One of the great pains that I have had was to be asked by someone to sharpen a stainless steel blade. I would almost rather take a beating than have to try to put an edge on something like stainless. Stainless, or at least the kind they put in say a certain type of folding knife are the worst I think. The name of the knife is a homophone or homograph but more commonly refered to a homonym with the word of the antlered animal we all hunt come deer season called a Buck!

I would like to know where I may obtain the kind of stone you refer to as a Behr-Manning India Sharpening Stone. I would be forever indebted to be able to locate one of these outstanding stones to be able to put a fair edge on a knife for several friends of mine who have had the misfortune to buy one of these stainless wonders.

I still refuse to even try to sharpen those new fangled blades with the serated edges, no way!

Again I appreciate the post and applaud you for the info.

rabbit03

:hatsoff:

 

[rabbit03]

JLH please forgive my demotion of you earlier in my last post I appoligize. I think you should be elevated to the status :cry: :master: of a .45 cal. for the sharpening post!

rabbit03

 

Well living in central Massachusets, I'm blessed with my choice of sharpening stones. See, one of the world's largest abrasive manufacturers is located in Worcester, MA.

Well, it seems that the original owner of the house we live in built the fire place out of sharpening stones from that company. The yard is littered with various types and grades of stones, that I have collected over the years.

Then there's the Arkansas stones that I have bought at flea markets and yard sales. Often they are choked with oil and grease. These I wipe down with paint thinner and then soak over night in hot water and Dawn or Sunlight dishsoap. Then I set them out in the sun to dry. I don't use oil to sharpen my blades, only dish soap and a few drops of water.

As for the angle at which I sharpen my blades, I hold the blade very close to the stone. It almost looks as if I am polishing the blade. I move the blade around in a circular motion. I only use a file to start a new blade or remove a bad nick. My first stepfather showed me how to sharpen knives, he was from North Carolina and his family were backwoods people from way back.

Years ago, think I was twenty, I was sharpening knives for the produce department that I was the Assistant Supervisor of. The manager of the meat department walks up and says I was doing it all wrong. I took a swipe with the large french blade knife at one of the banana boxes stacked up next to the sink. A three sided pyramid, six inches tall fell to the floor. Stunned, the meat manager looked at me, the knife, the box and the box corner on the floor with his jaw hanging down. I replied, "You're right, its still a little dull." He had me redo all his blades. For me, a knife is not sharp, unless it takes hair. You can always tell when I've been sharpening knives by the bald spots on my arms.

Just :m2c:

 

[3 stinky dogs]

Verry easey to get.I will ask what they go on and tou should beable to get it at a junk yeard free!

 

[pepperbelly]

I know many people don't like stainless steel knives, but I can't live without my Victorinox Swiss Army knife.
The Lansky system keeps a good sharp edge on it, but the Swiss stainless may be better than other stainless.
I can't hold a blade at the same angle. I have removed an edge more times than I can count. That is why I like the Lansky system. I can pick which angle I want to use.
Jim

 

[sfruhwirth]

3 stinky dogs, sounds great... Just let me know what what the penalty fee is.. and I'll shoot it right out to ya!
:blue:

 

[B.Habermehl]

I use various grits of stones to sharpen my knives and chisels then strop them on wood charged with rouge now. When I worked on the water front I often used a fine file on the Rigger's knives followed by a synthetic stone. You know the cheap grey ones with two grits. Those synthetic stones would work better on those soft stainles steel knives than all the others I had. I would strop the knives on cardboard of all things! A piece of ordinary corrigated cardboard makes a surprisingly good strop with no added abraisive the knife will shave hair when your finished. I sharpened many a buck brand knife that way also. BJH

 

[Johnny Tremain]

For my Searle's Bowie, I use only clove oil.
An extra fine Arkansas wet stone.
A 23 degree pilot block.
stroke forward from hilt to tip.
no more than 3 runs, then turn over and do other side of blade

Tis NASTY sharp! Honed to a wicked edge

Every 3 months I use rice paper & a special talc to clear the dried oil away, then re-oil.

 

[Blacksmith]

Sharp tools are the trick. Norton India Stones (available from Grainger or other places like Ace or True Value if you order them) are excellent stones (combination coarse/fine). If you can find them, carborundum stones are excellent as well ( but I haven't seen new ones in a long time). You will hear as many ways for sharpening knives as for pleasing Wives. Some push, some pull and some go in circles. I mostly pull. Depending on the need, I hold the stone in my hand for the large part (unless the knife or tool needs really hogged on, then I clamp the stone in the vise until I get it in shape). I have also used a lot of water hones over the years from the ( now defunct) American Hone Company. These hones were hot bonded and had a rub stone to keep the pores clean and free of goo. These hones (not to be confused with stones) will make a straight razor hum (or a wood chisel). I had occasion to be in the company of the owner of one of the more imminent designs of modern George Jetson muzzleloaders. I showed him one of my stones and he proceeded to use it to sharpen his knife. The man applied so much downward pressure to the stone that he actually scalped a divot in the stone. He then stated that the stone was junk and told me so. What an idiot. This leads me to one of the most important tricks I have ever learned about sharpening. Sometimes the weight of the knife (or razor or tool ) alone is all that is needed to restore the edge. This is certainly the case with some stainless. Also the other thing is to keep the stone/hone flooded with oil or water ( I use air tool oil for the large part). Belt grinders are excellent for sharpening many things (I keep 80 grit and use the grinder for mower blades to shop tools). Finer grits will sharpen knives very well. Wet/dry sandpaper flooded with water also work very well (settin the paper on a piece of NEW flat glass works well for this). You gonna sharpen, you gonna get cut. Be careful. 2nd cut and smooth files also work excellent. Depends on the situation. Crock sticks are very nice for one or two strokes to refresh an edge (Grandma used the lip of a crock to sharpen). A sharpened edge sometimes needs to be honed, sometimes not. The teeth on a stoned edge gut like gremlins (for a chopping tool) but the polished teeth on a razor (from the strap) will change from tonight until the morning sometimes. You'd think you was shavin with a field cultivator. I haven't shaved however in 15 years or so and the last tool I shaved with was a straight razor. Keep the stone/hone flooded and free of media/chips. Stainless WILL sharpen different than carbon. Razors and wood chisels are harder'n Chinese Arithmetic for a reason just like Old Timers are soft. All in the purpose of the tool. Different degrees of the bevel will make a difference. Thin/flat works for a razor because thats the way you use the tool (flat ground or hollow ground ). Pole axe and a double bit same game for some folks. Some will stick worse than others. I wouldn't sharpen in circles on a bet today but that is just something that I learned for myself. I do know folks that sharpen in circles and are successful. Everbody's different.

 

[gl04]

Once you all get done with them stones, take that edge and rub it up and down a leather strap!! That's how to get a "straight razor" edge!