Knives in Colonial America

[FlinterNick]

I would agree except for the "heavy" part. These were fighting knives and the examples I have see, including my custom replica are not heavy and are quite easily maneuvered without making the arm tired.

There’s so much variation in all of them. Some of the custom works I’ve seen were pretty thick blades and some of the originals were too. I’d likely assume that many of these knives were homemade and may have served a dual purpose, hunting fighting and utility.

Personally I like my knives heavy because i always draw the short straw on wood collection.

 

[rusty]

How about the plane old butcher knife, with pinned handles with 6 to 8-inch blades, thousands of those were imported from Britain They were the most common knife of the fur trade...D

 

[Red Owl]

What knives were common for the average farmer/militia man of decent means in Colonial America? What was popular and what would be fitting for an English colonist that is not by trade a professional hunter?

A lot of the knives mentioned are Period Correct but might have been carried by different personas. The trade knives would have gone to NDN's and a lot of them were of different patterns than those of the Rendezvous/Mountain Man era. Some Iroquois trade knives had very long blades. Since you're not interested in folding knives then I'd say a blacksmith type knife might be most appropriate, Dixie Gun Works has a few such blades. The Crown Stag handles look great but a plain wood handle was likely more common. Imported knives from England might be a possibility but there doesn't seem to be many extant artifacts around. I'd go with a blacksmith type blade and wood handle. Any French type knife would likely not be carried by an American colonist.

 

[rich pierce]

The popular “rifleman’s knives” mostly date from the 70’s forward. 1970’s, that is, when the forged custom knife market opened up. Led by the House brothers, these knives have become so linked to todays longrifle culture that most people are convinced they were prevalent in colonial America. Same is true for the iron-mounted “Virginia” rifle. Great designs, great products, but not representing common colonial items.

 

[Rifleman1776]

The popular “rifleman’s knives” mostly date from the 70’s forward. 1970’s, that is, when the forged custom knife market opened up. Led by the House brothers, these knives have become so linked to todays longrifle culture that most people are convinced they were prevalent in colonial America. Same is true for the iron-mounted “Virginia” rifle. Great designs, great products, but not representing common colonial items.

I looked up the House brothers knives. Only one, their 'dirk' fits the image of the Rifleman's knife/knives I found with my original research in the 1970'. My personal one is patterned much like that and is a composite of five pictures of originals we found to replicate mine from. That was in pre-computer days so I can't provide links. I know this is a subject of huge debate but I'm convinced mine is a correct version of what the Rev. Rifleman might have carried.

 

[Artificer]

What we nowadays call "trade" knives were probably one of if not the most common types of knives available in the 18th century and not just for trade with the NA's. Today we call them butcher or boning knives. At least one would have been used in every kitchen from small cabin homes, to poor farmers, to the kitchens of tradesmen and that includes the kitchens of the rich.

Gus

 

[Brokennock]

Of course. Those kinds of blades have been around for centuries.

Really?
Machetes and such were commonly used in Colonial America?

Lots of things, "have been around for centuries." It doesn't mean they had a place in Colonial America.

Any Colonial American references to kris bladed knives/daggers? They've been around for centuries.
How about blow guns and darts? They've been around for centuries?
White men using archery tackle for war or hunting? Been around for centuries,,,, and the British had relatively recent history of renowned use of archery tackle.

Most knife relics from Colonial times are way to thin for all the bush crafty stuff people want to believe they were used for..... But let's face it,,, there were, and are, better tools for most of those jobs.

 

[smoothshooter]

Really?
Machetes and such were commonly used in Colonial America?

Lots of things, "have been around for centuries." It doesn't mean they had a place in Colonial America.

Any Colonial American references to kris bladed knives/daggers? They've been around for centuries.
How about blow guns and darts? They've been around for centuries?
White men using archery tackle for war or hunting? Been around for centuries,,,, and the British had relatively recent history of renowned use of archery tackle.

Most knife relics from Colonial times are way to thin for all the bush crafty stuff people want to believe they were used for..... But let's face it,,, there were, and are, better tools for most of those jobs.

They weren’t called machetes in 1700’s America, as far as I know, but long, thin chopping-type cutting tools have been around for centuries. I have seen and heard them referred to as corn knives ( for chopping down cornstalks ). Something like that does not have to be thick. The thinner blade actually cuts better than a heavier one for smaller diameter sprouts and the more fibrous taller plants. Some sugar cane knives fit this description.
As far as the whole “ bushcrafting “ thing currently in vogue goes, I try not to take seriously some of the things I see a few of those guys doing that is unnecessary and needlessly abusive of their equipment.
In general, my point is that long, slender knives have been made and used on probably every continent as agricultural tools since mankind figured out the general drift as to how to make longer tools that would not crack or break in the first 30 minutes of careful use.
So would it not be safe to assume that lots of people moving west from our east coast may have brought agricultural chopping blades with them?

 

[Brokennock]

They weren’t called machetes in 1700’s America, as far as I know, but long, thin chopping-type cutting tools have been around for centuries. I have seen and heard them referred to as corn knives ( for chopping down cornstalks ). Something like that does not have to be thick. The thinner blade actually cuts better than a heavier one for smaller diameter sprouts and the more fibrous taller plants. Some sugar cane knives fit this description.
As far as the whole “ bushcrafting “ thing currently in vogue goes, I try not to take seriously some of the things I see a few of those guys doing that is unnecessary and needlessly abusive of their equipment.
In general, my point is that long, slender knives have been made and used on probably every continent as agricultural tools since mankind figured out the general drift as to how to make longer tools that would not crack or break in the first 30 minutes of careful use.
So would it not be safe to assume that lots of people moving west from our east coast may have brought agricultural chopping blades with them?

1st, I apologize for mixing my thoughts between your reply and some others in regards to bushcraft uses. Your description of activities and theirs somewhat overlap, but I am more clear now on what you mean.

would it not be safe to assume

No.

would it not be safe to assume that lots of people moving west from our east coast may have brought agricultural chopping blades with them?

We know they did bring agricultural tools west. But it raises a few questions still. What did they actually have to bring and how did they use it.
Our o.p. is from Connecticut with ties to PA and NC if I remember correctly.
Not much going on with cane knives in those areas during Colonial times.

Did the average sheath knife get taken to war or were there longer trade knives geared more towards combat?

I certainly don't recall reading any accounts of cane knives, or anything described in a way I'd associate with a machete, being used as a militia weapon.
Although, I don't think I've ever actually nailed down a solid description of a cutoe (sp?).

And, as a weapon, a 'hawk or belt ax would give more reach and swinging power than your average belt knife, if we leave out cane knives and such.

 

[rich pierce]

The only knives regularly used in combat militarily were swords by cavalry and bayonets by foot soldiers. Officers swords were more marks of rank. This holds true from colonial times through the Civil War.

Hand combat is a last resort, worst case scenario in non military contexts. It appears that explorers, long hunters, scouts, settlers, and so on would use everyday useful tools (knives and tomahawks) they needed to carry anyway when forced into hand to hand combat.

Fighting knives such as the Bowie developed as a fad when things were well-settled and crowded, for gamblers and ne’er-do-wells and men who bought into the fad. We don’t have data but I find it hard to imagine farmers going about their work with a big heavy knife strapped on “just in case.” Most frontier people were farmers.

Big knives and knife fighting have been so romanticized in movies that our brains are overloaded with those images which on our minds are data points. They aren’t. Hollywood writers and producers are concerned with drama not historical accuracy.

 

[Brokennock]

Big knives and knife fighting have been so romanticized in movies that our brains are overloaded with those images which on our minds are data points. They aren’t. Hollywood writers and producers are concerned with drama not historical accuracy.

Yup.
Violence with knives in reality is far different than Hollywood knife duals. Fast, unexpected, and often extremely violent.
I've seen some pretty nasty work done very quickly with a 2" blade, no, neither survived.

 

[Magungo1066]

They weren’t called machetes in 1700’s America, as far as I know, but long, thin chopping-type cutting tools have been around for centuries. I have seen and heard them referred to as corn knives ( for chopping down cornstalks ). Something like that does not have to be thick. The thinner blade actually cuts better than a heavier one for smaller diameter sprouts and the more fibrous taller plants. Some sugar cane knives fit this description.
As far as the whole “ bushcrafting “ thing currently in vogue goes, I try not to take seriously some of the things I see a few of those guys doing that is unnecessary and needlessly abusive of their equipment.
In general, my point is that long, slender knives have been made and used on probably every continent as agricultural tools since mankind figured out the general drift as to how to make longer tools that would not crack or break in the first 30 minutes of careful use.
So would it not be safe to assume that lots of people moving west from our east coast may have brought agricultural chopping blades with them?

Ya the machete part was making fun of large knives I know they weren't used in Colonial America haha. Thanks!

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

The only knives regularly used in combat militarily were swords by cavalry and bayonets by foot soldiers. Officers swords were more marks of rank. This holds true from colonial times through the Civil War.

Hand combat is a last resort, worst case scenario in non military contexts. It appears that explorers, long hunters, scouts, settlers, and so on would use everyday useful tools (knives and tomahawks) they needed to carry anyway when forced into hand to hand combat.

Fighting knives such as the Bowie developed as a fad when things were well-settled and crowded, for gamblers and ne’er-do-wells and men who bought into the fad. We don’t have data but I find it hard to imagine farmers going about their work with a big heavy knife strapped on “just in case.” Most frontier people were farmers.

Big knives and knife fighting have been so romanticized in movies that our brains are overloaded with those images which on our minds are data points. They aren’t. Hollywood writers and producers are concerned with drama not historical accuracy.

Rich, I've always wondered why Jim Bowie brought a knife to a gunfight.

 

[Magungo1066]

Rich, I've always wondered why Jim Bowie brought a knife to a gunfight.

From what I understand he was the "second" to a friend participating in a duel that escalated into a brawl after. I wonder if having a pistol on him and not being one of the two men in the duel would have been taboo or violated some accepted manner of conduct while dueling. Edit: a quick wiki skim seems to indicate other men outside of the duelists had guns present before the events of the fight. So who knows. Wish we could ask Jim!

 

[Rifleman1776]

I find it hard to imagine farmers going about their work with a big heavy knife strapped on “just in case.”

Rich, sometime read the book "The Second Thanksgiving". Before the time periods we usually deal with but a very informative picture of America's beginnings.

 

[smoothshooter]

Rich, sometime read the book "The Second Thanksgiving". Before the time periods we usually deal with but a very informative picture of America's beginnings.

It might not be strapped on, but would have been lying close by if it was being used every few minutes.
I have logged in many hours chopping with a long blade, and 80% of the time simply carried it in my hand, and tossed it on the ground when dragging away the brush I had just cut.

 

[Jay Templin]

I’ve yet to see a single reference to our Colonial forebears using belt knives to clear brush in the regular course of events. Fascine knives, tobacco knives, bill hooks, hatchets, axes, and tomahawks, yes. But not belt knives.
Pocketknives have been the constant companion of most men since the days of the Roman Empire. (See attached photo of a 3rd century “Swiss Army” type knife as one -admittedly non-typical - example.) This one is 17th C- https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/187636
Good article on Barlow knives (yes, they’re colonial) here- Colonial Pocket & Folding Knives – History of the Barlow Knife
And I highly recommend Jim Mullins’ book “Of Sorts For Provincials,” and his blog, which has this great article on the cuttoe. Cuttoe Knives Revealed
Having carried both a pocketknife and a belt knife daily in both my modern and colonial clothes for over 35 years, I find that both are indispensable.
Jay

 

[tenngun]

I looked up the House brothers knives. Only one, their 'dirk' fits the image of the Rifleman's knife/knives I found with my original research in the 1970'. My personal one is patterned much like that and is a composite of five pictures of originals we found to replicate mine from. That was in pre-computer days so I can't provide links. I know this is a subject of huge debate but I'm convinced mine is a correct version of what the Rev. Rifleman might have carried.
View attachment 160706

The riflemans knife is well known from the past.
In the 1970s-80s you couldn’t be an easterner or long hunter unless you had one. Then in the 90s through 2000s they were rarer then hens teeth, they became a reinactoism. Historic examples not withstanding
Now some are afraid to dip their toe in that water lest they become a farb.
I THINK we have over and under represented all sorts of things. Something known that looks cool gets bought up by everyone until some boys discover it wasn’t as common as thought, then no one wants one
At the risk of sounding political I have to say what we need is more diversity.
American colonist were not fitted out with ‘colonial out fit one each’
But had wide variety, and just some times there was a one of a kind.
Some one shot the first rifle when every other colonist had a smoothie
Some one had the first riflemans shirt or single fold hat
Some ‘Long Knifes’ carried long knifes, some didn’t

 

[Brokennock]

I’ve yet to see a single reference to our Colonial forebears using belt knives to clear brush in the regular course of events. Fascine knives, tobacco knives, bill hooks, hatchets, axes, and tomahawks, yes. But not belt knives.
Pocketknives have been the constant companion of most men since the days of the Roman Empire. (See attached photo of a 3rd century “Swiss Army” type knife as one -admittedly non-typical - example.) This one is 17th C- https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/187636
Good article on Barlow knives (yes, they’re colonial) here- Colonial Pocket & Folding Knives – History of the Barlow Knife
And I highly recommend Jim Mullins’ book “Of Sorts For Provincials,” and his blog, which has this great article on the cuttoe. Cuttoe Knives Revealed
Having carried both a pocketknife and a belt knife daily in both my modern and colonial clothes for over 35 years, I find that both are indispensable.
Jay

Great reply. And you brought up something I was thinking about last week,

Fascine knives, tobacco knives, bill hooks, hatchets, axes, and tomahawks, yes. But not belt knives.

18th century bill hooks.
Would you happen to have any pictures of one? I'm thinking of having a friend make me one.

 

[Artificer]

18th century bill hooks.
Would you happen to have any pictures of one? I'm thinking of having a friend make me one.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/fascine-knife-18th-century-76391745

The following link gives some good examples of real ones and those made later to much later into the 20 century.

https://www.billhooks.co.uk/photos-and-other-images/military-billhooks-3/
Gus