Lead Free Ammo?

[brubincam]

""THANK YOU""

 

[irishtoo]

i buy small amount of metals from."on line metals"..... on the web. they list steel and brass balls of different sizes. irishtoo

 

[roundball]

Just a thought about the whole "non-traditional" thing...since you can't use traditional lead balls where you want to hunt, and are having to look at "non-traditional" projectiles anyway.

So why not consider some of the existing copper bullets for muzzleloaders made by a few different companies now...Barnes being one of them and some other brands too.
Just poke around the muzzleloading sections of Websites / Catalogs like Cabelas, MidwayUSA, and the like...you see several caliber size choice ready to go.

I know we want to use traditional PRBs...but once you step across the line and try to make a Bismuth type ball work, traditional is gone. We had to give that up for waterfowl hunting long ago too...and a variety of non-toxic types of shot are now used...all non-traditional.

 

[roundball]

Just a thought about the whole "non-traditional" thing...since you can't use traditional lead balls where you want to hunt, and are having to look at "non-traditional" projectiles anyway.

So why not consider some of the existing copper bullets for muzzleloaders made by a few different companies now...Barnes being one of them and some other brands too.
Just poke around the muzzleloading sections of Websites / Catalogs like Cabelas, MidwayUSA, and the like...you see several caliber size choice ready to go.

I know we want to use traditional PRBs...but once you step across the line and try to make a Bismuth type ball work, traditional is gone. We had to give that up for waterfowl hunting long ago too...and a variety of non-toxic types of shot are now used...all non-traditional.

Here's an example of a non-toxic all copper bullet in .45 and .50cal:
http://thorbullets.com/

 

[GBG]

Iron is traditional... http://www.world-science.net/othernews/070620_gunshot.htm

 

[roundball]

The original poster needs some in .54cal...can you post a link for him so he'll know where to buy some?

 

[GBG]

The smallest iron balls I've found are 3/4". http://www.mcssl.com/store/superio...alog/product/2a80b6f4cb174514b4733704350f149e

I haven't used these, but to get down to .54 they might work. http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=20451&step=4&showunits=inches&id=1&top_cat=0
They are chrome plated steel, not 'traditional' but cheaper than ITX and round.

Note: Never shoot an iron or steel ball at a hard surface (steel, rock, thick hardwood ect.), they can bounce back.

 

[cynthialee]

Have any of you tried the Thor bullets? (I know this is the traditional hunting section but it was brought up in this thred and the no lead laws do mess up our plans for tranditional hunts in many places)
Will they function decent enough with a 1:48 twist .50 for 75 yards and closer? (I live in a forest so I do not often get a chance at long range shots.)

 

[HatchetJaque]

I've seen the copper bullets, but my GPR has a slow-twist 1 in 60" barrel and the consensus is that the bullets need a fast-twist barrel to be accurate.

Also, so far I have only been able to find the copper bullets in .50 caliber and my rifle is a .54...

 

[HatchetJaque]

I'd be reluctant to put something this hard down my barrel. If it got stuck or dry-balled the breech plug would have to come off to get it dislodged!

While they may be a bit pricey, the ITX roundball seems like the best solution for my application. Thanks for all the input everybody! :hatsoff:

 

[Spikebuck]

I've seen the copper bullets, but my GPR has a slow-twist 1 in 60" barrel and the consensus is that the bullets need a fast-twist barrel to be accurate.

While that may be generally true, you would not know for sure unless tried in your particular gun. I have a 1-66 twist Pedersoli Rocky Mtn Hawken in .54 and can shoot fairly long conicals with "hunting" accuracy (4" groups) out to 100 yards.

So, I think Roundball has one potential option for those that need to find some kind of alternative for traditional ammo.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

Rotometals has some low melt alloys that are lead free (40% bismuth-60%tin / 58% bismuth-42% tin)ive been toying with the idea of casting some RB with either of these just to see how they'd work. only thing that concerned me was the low melting point aspect of it. i have no experience with tin or bismuth, so im not sure what kind of hardness you would end up with in the finished RB's. :idunno:

Birdshot is normally 3% tin, but a lot of the early production had problems with quality control, both in low-alloy batches, and in purity of the bismuth (embritling contaminants). Good production practices nowadays produce shot much less brittle than the residual reputation of the early stuff, and folks that drip their own seem to mostly go up to 5% alloy. I recall an online discussion from someone a number of years ago who had experimented with bismuth-tin alloy balls, and recall that he said that he had to go to a much higher alloy to overcome fracturing in rifle balls - I faintly recall maybe 30%, but it could have been higher. Remember, the higher the tin content, the lower the density.

Regards,
Joel

 

[huntinguy]

Roundball on the http://www.muzzleloadermag.com/ forum did some research with brass balls (ya, I lost my computer privileges looking that one up...).

They seem to work pretty well. They are 70% the weight of lead. Closer than most other things. The penetration tests were promising and they were definitely reusable.
http://www.precisionballs.com/standard_balls.php
http://www.precisionballs.com/...IHgg&sort=4a&page=13
http://www.onlinemetals.com/

and for those worried about dryballing...

 

[roundball]

Yes, assuming the deer cooperate this fall, I'll be getting some first hand field results too...personally I have no doubts the particular "OnlineMetals" brass ball I tested in my .58cal will get it done with ease.

The difficulty at the moment is finding a company that makes metal balls in enough different diameters to be able to find one that will work in let's say the .50 or .54cal, as not everyone has a .58.

I thought I'd found the mother-lode when I discovered "Bal-Tec" (Precisionballs) as they carry an unbelievable inventory of different size balls in several different metals that allows a selection to fit any caliber / gauge muzzleloader we might want to use them in...Copper, Brass, Steel, Tungsten, and so on.
BUT...the really bad news is I finally got a human being on the phone the other day and my fears about the pricing I saw on their web site were verified.

I explained that I just bought a 20 pack of top quality solid brass balls for $11.88 from a company. But in search of another size, looking at Bal-Tec’s website it looks like 20 of the same identical ball would cost $362.00?
The reply was “that’s correct”.
Still in disbelief, I used another example...25 of your .484”s (for a .50cal) are $171.00?
And the reply was “that’s correct”.

I thanked them for their time and ended the conversation.
I can’t fathom individual's paying such exorbitant prices...must be businesses that have some sort of super critical applications for them like in an artificial heart or something.
So at least for my budget, Bal-Tec is not viable.
Folks just need to keep searching...(or get a .58cal...which is not necessarily a bad thing...LOL)

 

[BrownBear]

...or get a .58cal...which is not necessarily a bad thing....

I can see that if the non-tox shot manufacturers don't step up to the plate, there is going to be a heck of a run on 58 caliber barrels and rifles! :rotf:

I wonder if anyone has contacts with someone like Kent (whose Tungsten Matrix shot impresses heck out of me). In the case of cast shot like that, it wouldn't be too difficult to turn out other sizes at least for experimentation, and in fact the results would be MORE dense than lead.

 

[Dmitri Popov]

Could zinc melted down and cast for PRBs work? Would allow you to use the rest of those wheel weights!

 

[huntinguy]

seems to me like I heard that zinc doesn't pass the "non toxic" test.

But I have been wrong before.