leading flint

[armymedic.2]

Use the wrap that throws the most sparks that last the longest after they hit the pan. DO NOT TAKE MY WORD ON THIS. FIGURE IT OUT YOURSELF. That is why God gave you a brain.

easy there boss, :surrender: im asking cause im young and ya old timers are full of good tips. i know experimenation always needs to take place, but there is no reason why i should start from square one if someone has already done it. I have read your posts/articles and found them very informative. Actually i did exactly what you said to do in the dark room. The lead works best. :applause: i was inquiring about how much lead to use, which unless i missed it is not in your article, as i did not want to damage my lock.

 

[LRB]

To each his own. The common man of the 18th c. used leather. Militarys used both, but their locks are much larger than the average rifle lock, and much stronger. If you don't get reliable ignition from a leather wrapped flint, you have other problems.

 

[roundball]

LEAD!>>>>LEATHER!>>>>LEAD! LEATHER!>>>>LEAD! I love these debates. :rotf:

Yes, absurd comes to mind...

If I was to believe everything I read on the Internet it would be a struggle to explain why I've had perfect ignition for thousands of shots just using flint leathers like the rest of the world did for the past few hundred years :shake:

And the claims don't stop there with leather being no good and lead being best...other claims are that:
Bore butter is no good;
Hex wrench designed vent liners are no good;
Mass produced rifles are no good;
Mass produced patent breeches are no good;
Don't use 3F above .45 caliber
1:48" barrels won't shoot round balls accurately;
Must blow down the barrel;
Align the patch weave with the front sight;

On and on ad nauseum...makes my head hurt so I'll stay out of the way and just keep shooting my mass produced Hawkens with leather flint wraps, hex wrench design vent liners, mass produced patent breeches, using Goex 3F in calibers above .45, not aligning my patch weave, not blowing down the barrel, using lots of bore butter, enjoying 100% reliability at the range every weekend, and filling my deer tags every year.

RIO (rant is over)

:thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Its not a debate, when someone tells you how to figure it out yourself.

Its a choice.

 

[BEP]

LEAD!>>>>LEATHER!>>>>LEAD! LEATHER!>>>>LEAD! I love these debates. :rotf:

Yes, absurd comes to mind...

If I was to believe everything I read on the Internet it would be a struggle to explain why I've had perfect ignition for thousands of shots just using flint leathers like the rest of the world did for the past few hundred years :shake:

And the claims don't stop there with leather being no good and lead being best...other claims are that:
Bore butter is no good;
Hex wrench designed vent liners are no good;
Mass produced rifles are no good;
Mass produced patent breeches are no good;
Don't use 3F above .45 caliber
1:48" barrels won't shoot round balls accurately;
Must blow down the barrel;
Align the patch weave with the front sight;

On and on ad nauseum...makes my head hurt so I'll stay out of the way and just keep shooting my mass produced Hawkens with leather flint wraps, hex wrench design vent liners, mass produced patent breeches, using Goex 3F in calibers above .45, not aligning my patch weave, not blowing down the barrel, using lots of bore butter, enjoying 100% reliability at the range every weekend, and filling my deer tags every year.

RIO (rant is over)

:thumbsup:

You forgot the one about spitting over your left shoulder during the dark of the moon. And something about "stumpwater", whatever that is. Oh ----- wait. We're not talking about warts, are we. Oops. :redface:

 

[renovato]

I just flatten a ball, trim is as wide as the flint and wrap it. Cut a little hole in the center so the flint can sit farther back if you need to. The flints I'm using are too long, so I had to cut the hole.

 

[MikeFromON]

That's what I do too. I pound a ball (one I had to pull that now has a big hole in it) flat then cut out a rectangle of the appropriate size. I wind up using about 1/3 or maybe 1/2 of the flattened ball. I switched from leather to lead on my Mortimer rifle and I have noticed many more sparks but that the edge of my flint now chips away where once it did not. It also comes loose less often than with the leather wrap because I can do the jaw screw up a little tighter. I would say stick with leather unless you are having problems, then switch to lead.

 

[rice1817]

Paul:

Have you ever found it necessary to cut the little fold down "wings" into the flat lead to fold down over the sides of the flint once installed in the lock? I have some pictures of military issued flint leads from the early 1800's and wondered if there was any advantage to them over straight lead strips.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I have never purposely folded edges around a flint. However, as you use a lead wrap, and squeeze it down every time you tighten that cock, the lead does squeeze out to the side, snd then normal handling will cause those edges to fold up or down around the flint. I noticed that has happened with the lead wrap I have used now for more than 15 years. I guess its getting time for me to replace it. Think I got my money's worth?

To seriously consider your question, I suspect much of how well a wrap holds a flint in a particular set of jaws depends on how the jaws are made- flat surfaces, or teeth? - the size of the flint- musket flints are much bigger, and therefore can be moved easier- and then how strong the springs are in the lock. A heavy mainspring and heavy frizzen spring can bang a flint around a lot, putting lots of stress on the flint, the wrap, and the jaws. i am a strong advocate for reducing springs to stop eating flints up, more so as the cost of a flint rises each year. But reducing the spring tension also eliminates or greatly reduces the shock and vibrations that are delivered to a gun, so that the shooter can hold his sight picture on target without fighting that extra energy. And the third good reason is that in addition to saving flints, you also reduce the wear on the frizzen, including the deep gouges you often see on the monster locks.

If you are never going to fire anthing out of a replica firearm than blank charges as a re-inactor, they it probably doesn't much matter if the lock is tuned, the frizzen is not gouged, the flints are not destroyed in a couple of strikes, etc. Accurate firing is not an issue.

But, if you want to see how good tha gun can really shoot, then be nice to those flints and frizzens, and get rid of the rattle and tickle that disturbs sight pictures, by reducing those springs.

 

[Claude Mathis]

If "your sparks work, but are pretty lame.", I would be looking for some other reason for lame sparks besides the leather flint wrap.

I agree.

Debating whether lead or leather is "best" reminds me of the testing we used to do on hard drive speeds. Measured "in the lab", there might be a 4 millisecond difference in speed between two drives, but in everyday usage, humans couldn't perceive this difference. To ague over which drive was "faster" would have been ludicrous. But, there were always those "techies" (I use that term affectionately, as I am one) who couldn't resist splitting hairs. :grin:

 

[BLAHMAN]

LEAD!>>>>LEATHER!>>>>LEAD! LEATHER!>>>>LEAD! I love these debates. :rotf:

I like leather! Then I told my wife I'm into leather....."Hey Baby! I'm into leather!!!!"

She just sorta rolled her eyes, shook her kead and muttered, "What now?" and wandered off!

I wonder if I woulda got a different reaction if we were younger? :haha:

 

[faw3]

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: ( AND?). Fred :hatsoff:

 

[faw3]

TO answer your "Q" I just trim it a bit smaller and shorter than the flint, it holds much better than leather in my 1 flintlock, and I just did the lead thing because I kept loseing flints, I do beat it real flat to keep weight down. Hope that helps - it works for me and this one flintlock, so I wouldnt say it's the last word on this. :rotf: Fred :hatsoff:

 

[BLAHMAN]

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: ( AND?). Fred :hatsoff:

I have no ides what she was thinking!!!! :shocked2: :haha:
:haha:

 

[armymedic.2]

i pounded down a .32 and it seems to be holding nicely and giving me the sparks i was looking for. Paul, thanks for the pt detailing how rare it is to break a lock because of an extra few grains. That eased my mind :thumbsup:

 

[faw3]

HAS ANY GUY EVER?? :rotf: FRED :hatsoff:

 

[Roy]

The use of lead over leather around the flint can cause extra stress on sporting locks, and cause the cock to break. Not common, but possible enough that Chambers, and L&R, will void any warranties if done.

I thought this was funny, look at whats in the jaws of the Queen Anne Pistol Flintlock.[url] http://www.flintlocks.com/locks5.htm[/url] :blah:

it sure doesn't appear to be leather

 

[roundball]

The use of lead over leather around the flint can cause extra stress on sporting locks, and cause the cock to break. Not common, but possible enough that Chambers, and L&R, will void any warranties if done.

I thought this was funny, look at whats in the jaws of the Queen Anne Pistol Flintlock.[url] http://www.flintlocks.com/locks5.htm[/url] :blah:

it sure doesn't appear to be leather

:hmm: Looks like leather to me...

 

[Roy]

Probably is but from first glance it looked otherwise, thought it was funny. On this whole subject I have used both, and usually use whats at hand. I'm too lazy to flatten RB's so I usually just use an old boot. Not that it matters much.

 

[Stophel]

I did a limited experiment with a lead flint wrap. It sparked OK, but no better than with leather. However, I had to tighten the top jaw EVERY SINGLE SHOT because the lead would get itself loose. It seemed extremely impractical to me, so I immediately abandoned it. It simply didn't grip very well, and I don't see how it ever really could.

It seems, in my mind, that lead would add unnecessary mass to the cock, which you definitely don't need.

I won't tell anyone to never use lead, but I will say that it most certainly is unnecessary, and definitely not required for good lock performance. :winking:

I will agree with Paul in one way. I don't like super heavy springs either. I don't want them feather light, but neither should it take Charles Atlas to cock the lock. A lighter spring (within reason) makes it much easier on the frizzen. Of course, the best way to make it easy on the frizzen is to design everything so that the flint doesn't crash too squarely into the frizzen, but gives it a rather more glancing blow. Slanting the frizzen back just a little bit can make a huge difference.