Leather for Over Powder/Over Shot Cards

[user 48702]

Has anyone used or heard of leather being used for an over powder or over shot card? Since I'm in the leather manufacturing business, I've given this a thought a time or two. I have any diameter punch that I need to make the appropriate size for shotgun use. Just wondering if there is any reason not to give it a try. I literally throw away or give to the Boy Scouts several hundreds of pounds of scrap leather a year. I'm just now getting interested in smoothbore shooting.

 

[Rató:rats]

I only use leather wads in my 20 ga both over powder and over shot. I have more leather scrap than I could use in two lifetimes so it makes economic sense but I’ve also found I get the best patterns with leather wads. Tried nitro cards, thin card I cut myself, tow, wasp nest. All are fine but for me leather is best. Bonus they won’t hold an ember and set my woods on fire.

 

[Eutycus]

I don't have any experience in smoothbore or shotguns myself but I'd say give it a try. Experiment

 

[user 48702]

Thanks, I thought leather would work, but great to hear from someone who's tried it. I would think that the leather would help swipe the bore upon loading.

 

[oldwood]

In 1972 , I read about someone using leather patches for round balls. At the time I was shooting a .75 cal. Bess. . I miked leather until I found my patch thickness. The leather I found was my wife's car chamois. I lubed it with a liquid lube , but I can't remember the name of it. It shot well , good as cloth. But alas , wife's chamois got all used up. She still doesn't know I destroyed her chamois 50 yrs ago...........oldwood

 

[Artificer]

Has anyone used or heard of leather being used for an over powder or over shot card? Since I'm in the leather manufacturing business, I've given this a thought a time or two. I have any diameter punch that I need to make the appropriate size for shotgun use. Just wondering if there is any reason not to give it a try. I literally throw away or give to the Boy Scouts several hundreds of pounds of scrap leather a year. I'm just now getting interested in smoothbore shooting.

WELCOME Aboard Devil Dog!

There is a LONG history of using leather for shot cards.

London 1767

"The art of shooting flying: containing directions for the choice of guns: experiments discovering the execution of barrels of different lengths and ... The fourth edition. By T. Page, Norwich"

The Art of Shooting Flying: ... Explain'd by Way of Dialogue ... Second Edition, with Additions - Google Play

and:


An Essay on Shooting, 1791, William Cleator,

An Essay on Shooting: Containing the Various Methods of Forging, Boring, and ... - Magné de Marolles - Google Books

Sending PM....

Semper Fi,
Gus

 

[Artificer]

Now the original accounts above don't specifically state what oz. leather they used for "Over the Powder" and "Over the Shot" Cards, but others here should have more info on that for you.

I imagine the scrap from the slings you make would work well for at least one of these (probably Over the Powder Cards), but again, I'll have to let others go into more details.

Gus

 

[Zutt-man]

Has anyone used or heard of leather being used for an over powder or over shot card? Since I'm in the leather manufacturing business, I've given this a thought a time or two. I have any diameter punch that I need to make the appropriate size for shotgun use. Just wondering if there is any reason not to give it a try. I literally throw away or give to the Boy Scouts several hundreds of pounds of scrap leather a year. I'm just now getting interested in smoothbore shooting.

I’ll pay for the shipping for some

 

[user 48702]

Now the original accounts above don't specifically state what oz. leather they used for "Over the Powder" and "Over the Shot" Cards, but others here should have more info on that for you.

I imagine the scrap from the slings you make would work well for at least one of these (probably Over the Powder Cards), but again, I'll have to let others go into more details.

Gus

Since the last time we saw each other at the GCA meeting at Fairfax, VA, I came across and rebuilt a heavy roll press or what some called a leather combining machine. It has two large iron rollers set up like an old wringer washing machine. You can take about any thickness of strap, harness, or bridle leather and roll it through and it will stiffen and reduce the thickness by 2 to 4 ounces. Might work great for making card wads of varying thickness and density.

Richard

 

[Artificer]

Since the last time we saw each other at the GCA meeting at Fairfax, VA, I came across and rebuilt a heavy roll press or what some called a leather combining machine. It has two large iron rollers set up like an old wringer washing machine. You can take about any thickness of strap, harness, or bridle leather and roll it through and it will stiffen and reduce the thickness by 2 to 4 ounces. Might work great for making card wads of varying thickness and density.

Richard

I've often wondered if they used something like that machine in the 18th century to make the leather cards uniform, though the original treatises don't go into that much detail.

I imagine you would need to use lubricant on the leather before you rolled it, or otherwise it might rebound to less uniform thicknesses when individuals used/use them. How are you fixed for Olive Oil by the gallon or a full Hog's or Bear's worth of rendered tallow to use? Grin.

Gus

 

[user 48702]

In using the English Bridle that we use for the slings, it already has a minimal amount of oils and wax stuffed in it from the tannery. I would say it is just slightly more moist than strap leather, which helps to prevent cracking, but doesn't promote stretch. I take some of the straps that are just a little too thick for a certain sling we make, roll it through and it bumps the thickness down about 1 to two ounces, and it doesn't return to its original thickness. What would be dandy if it wasn't so expensive, would be the hard rolled horsehide. It is so hard from the tannery that you just about can't cut it with a round knife, and you better not have your hand out in front because the knife slips easy. I'll have to send you some.

 

[Artificer]

In using the English Bridle that we use for the slings, it already has a minimal amount of oils and wax stuffed in it from the tannery. I would say it is just slightly more moist than strap leather, which helps to prevent cracking, but doesn't promote stretch. I take some of the straps that are just a little too thick for a certain sling we make, roll it through and it bumps the thickness down about 1 to two ounces, and it doesn't return to its original thickness. What would be dandy if it wasn't so expensive, would be the hard rolled horsehide. It is so hard from the tannery that you just about can't cut it with a round knife, and you better not have your hand out in front because the knife slips easy. I'll have to send you some.

Sounds like you might be good to go, then.

Gus

 

[user 48702]

Gus:
Forgot to mention, this roll machine I have was made somewhere between 1880 and 1890. I have no doubt that something similar was more than likely in use in the late 1700s.

 

[Artificer]

I would not doubt it, especially for English Bridle leather. It was well known and highly regarded throughout the 18th century as just about the finest leather made, except for the reddish brown leather the Russians tanned (and I can't think of the name now, but it will come back to me).

Gus

 

[user 48702]

Was it Cordovan, its a reddish brown color. Cordovan was what they made the WWI USMC and USN low quarters out of. It was made from horsehide and they called it "shell cordovan".

 

[Artificer]

Was it Cordovan, its a reddish brown color. Cordovan was what they made the WWI USMC and USN low quarters out of. It was made from horsehide and they called it "shell cordovan".

Got this much, but still can't remember the name:

Russia leather is a particular form of bark-tanned cow leather. It is distinguished from other types of leather by a processing step that takes place after tanning, where birch oil is worked into the rear face of the leather. This produces a leather that is hard-wearing, flexible and resistant to water.[1] The oil impregnation also deters insect damage. This leather was a major export good from Russia in the 17th and 18th centuries because of its high quality, its usefulness for a range of purposes, and the difficulty of replicating its manufacture elsewhere.

Russia leather - Wikipedia

Gus

 

[Texas Gil]

I use scrap leather for wads in my 20 trade gun. Put a little lube by fingers.
they are usually about 1/8 thick and fairly stiff. It will compress the load and hold it firm. Put 1 on top 120 g powder and a card over ball.
It is the most accurate and consistent combo after 10 years experience. My 5 shot group is usually 5 to 8 in at 50.

 

[Herb]

I use leather over powder wads in large bore rifles, .50, 54 and .58. I cut them with round punches from thin leather which I think is the top split from leather discarded from a saddle shop. Thin gloves work, too. Maybe 3/4 inch for a .54, so that the leather cups as I start it into the bore a half inch or so. This is done with heavy loads when my patches blow, and I can't find a patch that holds together.

 

[user 48702]

I use scrap leather for wads in my 20 trade gun. Put a little lube by fingers.
they are usually about 1/8 thick and fairly stiff. It will compress the load and hold it firm. Put 1 on top 120 g powder and a card over ball.
It is the most accurate and consistent combo after 10 years experience. My 5 shot group is usually 5 to 8 in at 50.

Thanks, that's what I was looking and hoping for.

 

[Historian]

Oversized leather over powder wads give better ballistics from all my testing. I use slightly over bore size to give better gas seals which improves powder burn and velocity. Go with leather. I cut my own leather and wool felt wads.