LEFT HANDED Harpers Ferry

[Bullmoose]

Is there such an animal, a left handed 1803 or 1914 HARPERS?
I'm wondering because I am a Left Eye shooter and am looking for a Harpers lefty, Does anybody make any?

 

[szihn]

There are men who can make anything, and an LH harpers would be no more problem then any other hand made gun. However to get it really correct, you also have to have an original right hand lock (maybe a whole gun) to do the mirror immage copy from.
However, the price would be very high. I have made a few 100% hand made guns in the past.
Now you would not have to hand make the barrel, sights, lugs, Trigger and T. Gurad, and you could use a cast buttplate, so the cost would not be as high as a 100% hand made gun, but you would have to make the lock, side plate, stock, and perhaps the patchbox (although I think you could use a cast one, if you can find it)
So the real question is "how bad do you want one"?
If is HAS to be a Harpers, it's going to be high, and you'd have to find one to make the copy from. But if it could be something similar, from the same area and era, the price would not be too bad at all.

 

[paulvallandigham]

ANything you have that is Left Handed is no longer going to be historically correct, and around here, with all the snobs that infest this site, it isn't politically correct, either! The biggest problem is replicating the lockplate and cock in a left hand version. No manufacturer I am aware of makes a correct LH copy of the Harper's Ferry Rifle Lock. For that matter, you can't get a LH copy of Large Musket lock. L7R, and Chambers, both market rifle locks that are LH, but they are slightly smaller than the locks used on these guns, don't have the rounded lockplate, etc.

Since you are not going to be HC with a LH Harper's ferry rifle, maybe you won't mind having a different lock. Its your decision. But you could have a builder make you a gun that has the general lines, and stock of a HF gun, but uses a large rifle LH lock. The gun will shoot fine.

2 years ago, I had a LH American Fowler built. I had much the same problems, in that it would not be Historically Correct as a LH gun; it would not have the correct sized lock. My gunmaker decided to blend several schools of design in making the stock and made the gun to fit me! It works. It shoots, and a lot of men out there who don't give a rap about political correctness, or HC, wish they had one like it.

 

[tom hargrove]

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :thumbsup:

 

ANything you have that is Left Handed is no longer going to be historically correct, and around here, with all the snobs that infest this site, it isn't politically correct, either!

That's about as rude a comment that can be made about the forum members? You seem to be very bitter about something. If you have a problem with the members here, why are you here? Perhaps just to read your own words I suspect? :shake:

 

[kaac1221]

Ya' think Paul wuz jist joshin' us bit? :hmm:

 

[gcebulka]

ANything you have that is Left Handed is no longer going to be historically correct, and around here, with all the snobs that infest this site, it isn't politically correct, either!

Kind of harsh. I think that you will find that any public forum will suffer from the problems of passion, PC and opinion. Rather than saying unkind words about the situation, have you given any thought to "Take what you want and leave the rest"? It might lower your BP a bit... :winking: (BTW, that's BP as in blood pressure, if I'd have ment the propellent, I'd have said "Pyrodex" :rotf: )

George

 

ACTUALLY, There were rare left-handed guns made and several have been pictured in various books. But a left-handed military issue rifle would be non-pc.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

ANything you have that is Left Handed is no longer going to be historically correct, and around here, with all the snobs that infest this site, it isn't politically correct, either! The biggest problem is replicating the lockplate and cock in a left hand version. No manufacturer I am aware of makes a correct LH copy of the Harper's Ferry Rifle Lock. For that matter, you can't get a LH copy of Large Musket lock. L7R, and Chambers, both market rifle locks that are LH, but they are slightly smaller than the locks used on these guns, don't have the rounded lockplate, etc.

:bull:
My goodness Paul, what a bunch of foolish self-defensiveness - how worthy of a snob of the first water! :rotf: If a buyer wants a gun made for his own pleasure and use, there is certainly no one here that will deride him for that as long as he does not show up at a reenactment dressed as a US military rifleman OR if he tries to convince someone that it is an accurate reproduction of an actual historic piece. Face it, whether you like it or not, neither Harpers Ferry or Springfield or any of the contractors made a left handed anything be it rifle or smoothbored musket, it just didn’t happen and THAT'S why the parts aren't available. It's not a plot to deny lefties the enjoyment of muzzleloading. It is a historical fact, like it or lump it ”“ learn to live with it and you (and others who feel they are more historically minded!) will feel much better and all blood pressure levels will slowly return to normal. Now, if said person wants such a rifle made up for his/her personal enjoyment then have at I say. Historically Correct (oooh, there’s that phrase! :shocked2: ) parts for the M1803 ARE available and you can make use of the barrel, under rib, thimbles, ramrod, sights, breach plug, triggerguard, side plate (it is flat and either side can be used), and patchbox can all be used with little or no modification. The buttplate will need to be modified by cutting the left side for the patchbox lid and the patchbox inlet on the right filled so that is not too difficult. A stock will need to be hand made but any decent stocker can do that ”“ why it can even be modified the way Paul and two - bellys like by adjusting pull and drop so it will fit the individual, again nothing wrong with that. You do run into trouble with the lock but that is relatively easily overcome by anyone with a modicum of mechanical ability using excellent Siler internals and a totally correct HF 1803 frizzen. The plate, hammer and frizzen spring and pan will need to be made or modified from something similar but an inventive and motivated maker of moderate experience can do it with patience.
Russian Bull Moose Man, there you go. I hope that you can do it and I personally think you should try it. It will be expensive but it is doable. Parts are available from “The Rifle Shoppe” at: [url] http://www.therifleshoppe.com/[/url]
On the left side of the page find “Catalogue” and click on it. When you get there, click on “US Arms” and find “1803 Harpers Ferry Rifle” and you will be there. Prices have risen as the information is a couple of years old but it is something that can be done if money and time are not a problem. Just remember, use it to hunt or as a participant in shooting matches and you will have a rifle that fits you and has a feel that you like.

 

[ol vern]

:hmm: If you just have to have a Harpers Ferry save yourself a bunch of money and learn to shoot a right handed gun.

It is no big deal to shoot left handed with a right handed gun. Back in the 60s when I first started on flinters that was the only choice.
:hmm:

 

Guns that have no cheekpiece or offset stock can be fired right or left. I have seen originals with right hand locks, but set-up for lefty shooting with the cheekpiece and offset for a lefty on same side as the lock. I have seen originals with lefty locks (just not military guns) and lefty locks were available as attested to by the double rifles that were made. lefty rifles existed, they just were not common.

 

[JohnS]

I am left handed and left eye dominant. I learned to shoot right handed for some reason- lefties always seem to lead conflicted lives. Anyway, the way I compensate is to close my left eye when shooting. It shifts the dominance to the right eye. This also makes it easier to find a HC gun to shoot. This could be a possoble solution if you are able to adapt. Just from my point of view.

 

Ya' think Paul wuz jist joshin' us bit? :hmm:

Nope. I see no humor in this line either.

It shoots, and a lot of men out there who don't give a rap about political correctness, or HC, wish they had one like it.

 

ANything you have that is Left Handed is no longer going to be historically correct on these guns, don't have the rounded lockplate, etc.

Not exactly true. I have seen left handed antique percussion guns. I have also seen offered on a dealers site a left handed flintlock pistol. Flintlock double barrelled shotguns were made so left hand flintlocks were available, so a left hand rifle wouldn't have that hard to come by. So, while not exactly common they are historically correct. As for a military arm in left hand, weren't no such animal.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Mike, You are one of those people who have to try to criticize, even when you agree with me. I don't get it. I respect your work, and all the hours you have personally committed to learning the history of these guns. You are an outstanding gun builder. I just don't see why you have to think its important to take a shot everytime I write something.

Like most left-handers, I have been cursed my entire life with living in a RH world. I got into guns when I was a kid, when they stopped selling LH bows, began stocking only compound bows made to be shot right handed, and looked at me like I was from Mars because I asked if they had any bow for a left handed shooter. There were two companies making a few Left handed models. LH golf clubs were an expensive, custom order proposition. So, I went with guns. I looked into have my own large musket style military action lockplate. I was even going to have both a double throated cock, and an goose neck cock made for each lock, so the shooter could use whatever he needed for the gun he was building.

As for other guns made with LH Locks, I have previously commented on having the rare privilege to handle an original Tower build double barrel 12 ga. shotgun, sling swivel on the front of the trigger guard, the other attached to the barrel rib, European style, with 36 inch barrels, that balanced right where you hand naturally grasped the forend. The gun weighed about 9 lbs. but swung so effortless that you didn't notice the weight at all. It had a 12 1/2" LOP, but came to my face, with my eye looking down the rib at the front bead as if the gun had been made for my 6'1" frame, instead of the shorter man who owned it. This was obviously an officer's gun. It had matching large flintlocks on the gun. The internal parts were mirror images of each other. It clearly dated to the 1770s. So, yes, there are some guns made in that period with LH locks. But no brown bess, or harper's ferry or any other military rifle I know about. I have spent a life time looking. When I meet other LH NL shooters, we always compare notes on the subject of guns.

If some people had their way, I would never be allowed at their events with my LH guns at all. I learned a long time ago that those folks are not worth my concern, and they vanish with time, too. I don't need them to want me to feel good about myself, or enjoy this sport. Am I bitter? No, not really. But I am not going to pass up an opportunity to warn a new shooter, particularly a Left hander, of what prejudice he is going to encounter, even here. Back in the 1960's and 70s, there was an ardent battle going on in the gun magazines between ' Experts", self taught, and proud of all the hours they had put in learning their subject, about Hawken rifles. All the experts were adament that the brothers never made a Flintlock gun. Then, an authentic, real, flintlock Hawken showed up. People swallowed hard. People back pedaled, refusing to change their minds, or apologize for their ignorance, no matter how innocent it was. People refused to others they had insulted and called bad names over the issue. Then, a second rifle showed up. The world grew silent. I feared some suicides might result. But, never fear, that crowd is so full of itself, they took it all in stride, and started mincing words, saying things,like, " Well, I was talking about Sam Hawkens in his early days. I always meant the period with his brother and he were in business together in St. Louis "

Like the rest of the world, I just saw the entire science of Astronomy stood on its head by Hubble Telescope, and some of the newer scopes that are using various wave lengths of light to peer further in to the universe than ever before. The science as it was taught 40 years ago is changed by what we have found in the past 10 years. Things like this occur in the field of history, and antrhopology, all the time. About the best indicator of real ignorance is for someone to claim he knows everything about anything from history. I find all the parochialism about stock shape and design amusing at best, and a bore at worst. If it were possible to go back and find EVERY gun a single gun maker made 200 years ago, so we could see his complete record, then, and only, then , could solid conclusions be made about his artistry and design. That is rarely possible, as we have only a few examples among dozens or hundreds that a maker built during a working life.

Attempting to judge what is historically correct based on a few samples of guns known, is like determining the story in a book based on a few random pages that were removed from it. When someone here writes that a gun someone is buying , or making, is wrong because of some small change in the thickness or shape of the wrist, or width of the stock at the lock plates, or the angle of the lock plate to the barrel, All I think about is, " Yeah, that may be correct, ...... until the next gun is discovered that is not made that way. Then what are the critics going to say? " The reaoon we study history is so that we can learn from it. Some people insist on repeating history, and usually for no good earthly reason!

 

Like most left-handers, I have been cursed my entire life with living in a RH world. ...If some people had their way, I would never be allowed at their events with my LH guns at all.

Ahh... I suspected there was a reason for your bitterness.

But I am not going to pass up an opportunity to warn a new shooter, particularly a Left hander, of what prejudice he is going to encounter, even here.

If I read your posts correctly, when you point out something, it's a bit of historical knowledge, but when others do it, it's prejudice?

I think we're getting the picture. :hmm:

The science as it was taught 40 years ago is changed by what we have found in the past 10 years. Things like this occur in the field of history, and antrhopology, all the time.

Yes, and you can't fault people for citing current information. You can't call it prejudice, it's just today's level of knowledge and understanding.

 

I am not sure why this diatribe is directed at me, nor do I understand anything in the first paragraph--you sure you have the right Mike? Seems like you are having a bad day, I hope it improves. :v

 

[Slamfire]

I'd suggest a PC undedrhammer (although some here don't believe that, either) there were some supplied to the Republic of Texas during their war for Independance. :hatsoff:
My right eye doesn't work at all, due to the cornea becoming clouded in 1971. Before that I was hardly dominant in either eye. Just ask any member of my basketball team. My shots seldom hit the rim, either all net or over the backboard. :redface:

 

[TANSTAAFL]

ANything you have that is Left Handed is no longer going to be historically correct, and around here, with all the snobs that infest this site, it isn't politically correct, either!

That's about as rude a comment that can be made about the forum members? You seem to be very bitter about something. If you have a problem with the members here, why are you here? Perhaps just to read your own words I suspect? :shake:

Just because he made a point, don't feel jabbed by it. :rotf:

 

[Tumblernotch]

A very good friend of mine who is an excellent gunbuilder happens to be left handed. Most of the rifles and fowlers that he builds are left handed, and he has built a bunch of them in the last 35 years. He shoots left handed all of the time except when we have a wrong handed match or he needs to shoot right handed in a hunting situation. He shoots right handed rifles well regardless of cheekpieces. I am right handed, but have no problem shooting a right hand gun left handed.

Shooting a right handed military weapon should pose no problem to anyone who is left handed. The only exception would be in a battle line at a re-enactment, and there, you would need to shoot righthanded for the sake of keeping proper alignment and for safety's sake. But you're only shooting blanks there, so accuracy is not a problem.

Face it. Standard military weapons were and still are right handed. It may not be politically correct, but it is historically correct and militarily correct. That is one facet of standardization in military arms that has been in place for centuries. Left handed guns have been available for a long time for individuals, but when it comes to the army, it ain't about individuals. It's about the unit and the standardization of arms. Nobody in his right mind would build a left handed musket. They can shoot a right hander as is, or learn to shoot it right handed. And I ain't bein' a snob about it. There's nothing wrong with a left handed civilian gun, but a musket...Never!