Light loads

[smiley1954]

What would be lightest RB load for .20 gauge fowler for deer. I have been shooting 80 FFF but it kills my shoulder.
Thanks,
Smiley
PS
Not smoothbore but think 50 gr of RS Pyrodex in a .45 Seneca would kill a deer? Deadly accurate and I hate to change that.

 

[roundball]

What would be lightest RB load for .20 gauge fowler for deer. I have been shooting 80 FFF but it kills my shoulder.
Thanks,
Smiley
PS
Not smoothbore but think 50 gr of RS Pyrodex in a .45 Seneca would kill a deer? Deadly accurate and I hate to change that.

Speaking only from my personal experience, not theory, I've killed whitetails here in NC woods with only 80grns 3F in a .62cal / .600" ball...woods are thick, shots less than 50yds, etc...but I would not use less than that and have actually settled on 100-110grns Goex 2F depending on the particular smoothbore I'm using.

You can manage recoil a few different ways:

1) Try switching to 2F...its a bit slower burning so its pressure curve is not as sharp as 3F, recoil is more of a firm push than a sharp jolt;

2) If this is your first time hunting with that load, and its cool during hunting season where you hunt, remember that you'll probably be wearing more clothes which will eliminate a lot of the felt recoil...and typically, taking only one shot at a deer, you don't even know there was any recoil...as opposed to being all hunkered down over a rifle if shooting from a bench at a range where that position can make recoil from repeated shots very punishing;

3) If your LOP will accommodate it, you can use one of those rubber slip-on recoil pads...and cover it up with a lace-on fringed leather "butt cuff" so you don't even see the pad...or use one of those hunting shirts that has a flat pad sewn into it;

Lots of options that will manage recoil without resorting to reducing powder charges that will reduce your ability to ensure game is taken with authority / humanely.
But, IMO...if you're primarily basing your concerns on recoil experiences from range sessions getting ready for deer season...but the gun fits and shoots well...I wouldn't even worry about recoil for hunting...its never been a problem for me when actually taking a shot hunting.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Without knowing the stock design of your gun, there can be lots of other reasons that your load is hurting your shoulder. Where you locate the butt plate on your shoulder or upper arm, in the case of the half moon shaped butt plates, and the width of the butt plate are some of the causes of Pain. Too straight a stock, or too high a comb, can also cause pain, and too much drop at heel can send that stock into your cheekbone on recoil, too. How you hold the stock to your shoulder can also affect felt recoil. Only a Look-see, by a good shooting coach can help you unravel these problems.

Try using 2Fg powder, as RB suggests. I am using 75 grains of 2Fg in my light fowler, and I don't have problems with the recoil. Now, the gun was built to fit me, and that is no doubt a factor is how comfortable it is to shoot. But, there is very little difference between the recoil you will feel using 75 grains of 2Fg, or 80 or even 90 grains of 2Fg. Normally, we don't hear a lot of complaints about the recoil of 80 grains of 3Fg powder in these guns, either. That is why I suspect something else is also going on.

Work on finding the most accurate powder charge for your gun. Those huge pumpkin balls are going through a deer at the short range where you can group RBs accurately, so there simply is no need to use MORE powder, or a faster burning powder to get more "Power". Accurate placement is the name of the game. On a broadside shot, that huge ball will go completely thru the chest of a deer out to 80 yds. using 60 grains of 2Fg.( considered to be a "whimp" load by some of our chest-pounders!)

The "secret" to making meat with these guns is to place that ball accurately so it can do the most damage as its passing through those narrow chests. On a broadside shot, aim just above and behind- ball width-- the elbow on the near-side leg, and you will hit both lungs, and some major arteries coming out of the heart.

I have an Article on the forum, up under " Articles"- ( amazing how smart Claude is in organizing these things:bow: )- in the Member Resources section at the top of the index page to this forum. It may also help you learn how to control any heavy recoiling rifle or shotgun to lessen the punishment to your body.

See: "Controlling Heavy Recoil",
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/222421/

 

[ericb]

I agree with Roundball & Paul on the 2F. I normally shoot my .54 Harper's Ferry with 2F - never had a problem with recoil shooting offhand, although it's a little bit of a kicker off the bench, but not a big deal. Last week, because I was out of 2f, I used 3f, and Holy Cow did I get punished when shooting off the bench. My shoulder was black the next day. Are you experiencing difficulty shooting offhand or off a Bench? Note what Paul said about shape of Buttplate. I can shoot the Harper's Ferry all day offhand, but the Butt is not user friendly shooting from the bench position...

Eric

 

[paulvallandigham]

Eric: If you sit upright at a bench, and use a higher than normal forearm rest, so that you head is upright, and not bent backwards, the butt now presses against the same spot on your shoulder that it does when you are shooting off-hand, and it doesn't hurt any more, by comparison.

Most of us use too low a forearm rest when shooting off a benchrest, and then CRAWL the stock, causing the butt of the gun to recoil against the collar bone, and top of our shoulder, where there is no real thick muscle, rather than have the rifle recoil against our pectoral muscles. Crawling the stock makes stocks that fit well shooting off-hand, now smack us in the face( cheekbones) with the forward portion of the stock's comb. We all also have the bad habit of leaving our thumb wrapped over the wrist of the stock, and when crawling the stock, we get smacked in the nose by the knuckle on our thumbs.

I, of course, learned all this simply sitting in my chair, reading other people's articles and posts on the computer, according to our resident( self-proclaimed) "EXPERT". :cursing: :blah:
NOT! :shocked2: :hmm: :thumbsup:

 

[ericb]

Interesting you should say that Paul. I'm no stranger to bench shooting, & in analyzing what was different this time, in addition to using 3F, I had to shoot with the fore-end pretty low, due to shortage of available sandbags at Range (Note to self: don't go on the weekends). I clearly did have to "crawl" into the stock, which is not my normal technique. Have determined to get the fore-end higher next time, and shoot more upright, as you mentioned. I'm as much a He-Man as anybody, but I shoot for Fun; not to practice my Zen Pain-Management Technique...

Eric

 

[Deerstalker]

My daughter has a CVA youth model, .50 caliber, and we have killed deer with it loaded with a PRB and 50 grains of 2F pyrodex. Little recoil for her, and knocked the deer down at 30 yards with a well placed shot. Don't need much more than that.

 

[smiley1954]

Actually, I have been shooting this gun since '98. Back when I got it, I shot is so much, I screwed up my shoulder. I wound up going to a chiropractor and we both concluded that it was probably from playing with this arm so much!
I have killed a deer, turkey and numerous squirrels..Can't hit a bunny to save my life. I like it a lot. Jackie Brown Early VA style, 42", real nice piece. It actually looks like a genuine old gun from me toting it in the woods. Last couple of years, I have cut back on it and lost my edge and am thinking about adding a rear sight. I would like to work with it some more but the 80gr of FFF is taking it's toll on me again so I have resorted to other guns. I keep coming back to the smoothbore as it pulls me for some reason. My post was to see if anyone else shoots a .62/20 gauge with lighter loads effectively. Truthfully, I would never entertain the idea of shooting past 50 yards with it although I have rarely hit a 100 yd gong in the past. I was thinkgin of somewhere in the 60-70 grain neighborhood; 3 or 2F. and just wondering.
Thanks for the replies though,
Smiley

 

[chuck-ia]

The last deer I shot with my .62 I used 65 gr. 3f the deer was quartering towards me at about 40 yards, ball went in just behind front leg, went through the deer and broke it's back leg. flinch

 

[Congress Own Regiment]

Shooting from a bench in poor shoot position. Makes for a lot of ouch! it is my opinion that lots of people are in the more is better crowd.
confidence in your ability to hit the spot you want to on a target is far more important then how hard you hit the target. hitting the vitals and ,or braking bones is the key. having killed two deer with a spine shot with my bow and one with a spine shot crossbow. It does not take tons of energy to kill cleanly. and a sharp arrow through the lung puts most down in short order. Now as far as muzzle loader round ball a heavy big dai. ball moving slowly will wreck a deer in a few hart beets. a mortal wound is a mortal wound the trick is finding the animal after the shot. a round ball does not make a good entry wound it stretches the hide to the point it brakes and can close up the ball then flattens to a pregnant coin shape. if it losses to much energy as it passes through lots of tissue when it hits the far side hide. That will strecht but not brake catching the ball as it
losses all forward momentum. the bigger the ball the more momentum and the bigger the hole. entry wounds if high on animal may not bleed well or at all. The smaller the greater the risk of no exit wound and a closed entry wound. All animals that do not have broken bones run away. If ground cover is thick it is very important to have a blood trail in order to locate it easily. If using light load hit as few mussels and bone as possible. try to break longs and liver. liver bleeds a lot, good blood trail. Hard to hit them if you flinch because the big load of powder hurts.
try a field test on boards and water melon or pumpkins to see what loads will pass through.I bet it takes less then you think it should.
killed a deer in Vermont at 60 yards with a .58 round ball pushed by 65 gr. ffg
another with same gun and load at 80 but that was a head shot. she just did a cartwheel.
wish i never sold that one it was a shooter. any way hitting the right spot for the weapon you are using is key different weapon have different limits. and different shot placement but gun powder can not make up for a poor placed shot THE END

 

[Leatherbark]

Since its used for deer hunting I would ditch the bench and always practice from field positions and experience less recoil. Seems it would give you a better indication of your maximum accurate range on meat. If you still need to experiment with loads then a temporary recoil pad when using the bench would be what I would want. Bob

 

[tg]

I would not hesitate to use 60 gr 3f in a .62 at common smoothbore ranges for Deer, I have used for 60-90 gr 3f in several smoothrifles or smoothbores for deer the last decade, for practice I find that shooting from a standing rest duplicates the real shot much better than from sitting especially if not using a rear sight.Good luck and good hunting.

 

[smiley1954]

Yes, 60 grains FFFG adequate at smoothbore ranges for humanely killing a deer is what I was looking for. I suspected that it might be enough umph but needed to hear it and I know what you mean regarding smoothbore ranges...I wouldn't mess with taking a poke over 50 yards. That is my limitation at my age and eyesite.
Thanks very much.
Smiley

 

[Ft. Jefferson]

I think your good to go at 60gr-3f. I just read your post as i've been out of town. The last cow elk i killed was with my 20ga English fowler, back in 2007. My load was 90gr-3f w/610rb-.010 patch. The ball broke both shoulders and was recovered under the skin on the off side. The range was 26yds. The few whitetails i've shot with this gun have been taken with 75gr-3f because that's what my powder/shot measure holds, Approx 1oz shot. 60gr-3f is plenty for the animal,ya just need to know your range and trajectory.

 

[Tinker2]

What would be lightest RB load for .20 gauge fowler for deer. I have been shooting 80 FFF but it kills my shoulder.

This is one of my .62/20 gage flint locks, I shoot 55 grains of FFg for deer.
It works well for me. It is my most used deer gun.

The butt plate is 1 5/8” wide, 6” long. You can load it up a long way and
not feel much recoil.
mule gun

Tinker2