Load development

[PathfinderNC]

I was out shooting today with my Kibler 54. The distance was 50 yards and I was using a bench rest and following the shooting method I was taught recently by Dave Miller. The powder load I found best was 75 grains and had been using 2f (Goex) powder. I was getting 2.25' groups, which I thought wasn't horrible for me.
I then switched to using 3f (Goex), using the same PRB (.535 with .018 ticking and spit lube) and followed the same shooting method and swabbing the barrel every other shot. My group went from 2.25" to 1.75".
It's nice when things start to work out

 

[Greenjoytj]

Did you get a chance to fire both loads across a chronograph.
It would be a good experiment to see if increasing the 2fg powder quantity until that load match the MV of the 3fg load. Maybe the accuracy might match too.

I never liked the concept of a spit lubed patch, I suspect it works well because it simulates the “Dry Lube” method where a small amount of water soluble oil is mixed with water and used to lube the patches. The the water is given time to evaporate out of the patch leaving just a trace of oil behind. These dry patches are then used for loading and firing.

 

[PathfinderNC]

Did you get a chance to fire both loads across a chronograph.
It would be a good experiment to see if increasing the 2fg powder quantity until that load match the MV of the 3fg load. Maybe the accuracy might match too.

I never liked the concept of a spit lubed patch, I suspect it works well because it simulates the “Dry Lube” method where a small amount of water soluble oil is mixed with water and used to lube the patches. The the water is given time to evaporate out of the patch leaving just a trace of oil behind. These dry patches are then used for loading and firing.

I dont ave a chronograph. I've always used spit patch for range shooting (not hunting) and found no need to change. Believe it or not, in 40 years of shooting and usung spit patch, I never once had a stuck ball,

 

[Loja man]

It’s great when things start coming together!!

 

[necchi]

Good on ya, seems Dave has sent you in the right direction
It could be one hole, if you maintained bore condition with every shot, instead of every other.
Truth.
If you learn to follow the teachings of Brother Dutch in the way he's presented them, you'll find it, there's no "part way", or "kinda like", ya gotta do it all,, just like he layed out, it's simple really.

 

[French Colonial]

I am with you on this one Pathfinder, I have been using spit patches since the late 70's early 80's. I bought Dutch's book and found it was not for me.
I refuse to wipe between shots and have never found a reason to do so. Others who shoot from loading benches all the time seem to like it.

 

[RIDE-RED350R]

You guys have got me wanting to try 3F in my 50 cals.

I have a chronograph and would love to do some experimenting.

Nice shooting!

 

[William O.]

It's always good to try both 2 & 3 f in your rifles. I have had rifles that absolutely couldn't hit the ground using one or the other yet gave great accuracy otherwise.

 

[dave951]

Glad to see it working for ya Pathfinder! A chrono may be on my shopping list. My old one is non functional but not from a close encounter of the ballistic kind.

 

[PathfinderNC]

Glad to see it working for ya Pathfinder! A chrono may be on my shopping list. My old one is non functional but not from a close encounter of the ballistic kind.

That would be a great thing to get. Then I could use your scope, skeet thrower AND chrono

 

[Mulebrain]

It sure is nice finding the sweet spot!

Can you elaborate, or link us up to the info on Dave Miller technique?

 

[dave951]

It sure is nice finding the sweet spot!

Can you elaborate, or link us up to the info on Dave Miller technique?

It's no secret, I've posted it on this forum before. It's not mine, I just read about anything on how to shoot rifles accurately and it's just a compilation of techniques. It does work.

It's based around internal ballistics, body position, sight picture (center hold for over 90% of cases), and load development. In my work with kids at summer Scout camp, our first summer I directly worked with over 70 kids. In all but 3 of those cases, I took a kid who could barely hit a paper plate at 25yd to shooting Ritz crackers off a wire at the same distance, off hand, with minie balls, and iron sights. That's the equivalent of shooting 8in offhand groups at 100yd.

Here's a pic of one of the 3 that wouldn't listen. Look at his head position on the stock. There's daylight between his cheek and the stock. I guarantee he'll miss every time like that and he did.

Here's one who did listen and turned out to be the best shot of the summer.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Another point expressly directed to load development ... vary your powdah charge! For example, I'm working up loads for targets from 25 to 100-yards for the the upcoming New England flintlock invitational shoot to be held in July, I have a 50-grain load for my 50-cal that puts them all in the same hole @ 25-yards, offhand no less too. But I'll need more velocity for the 100-yard targets.

During benched load development @ 50-yards, 70-grns 3Fg printed a 'repeated' 2-3" group, whilst upping the charge brought the group down to a 'repeated' 1" group. This is due to barrel harmonics of our firelocks, where mine might prefer one charge and your's quite another. And this is why we test ...

 

[dave951]

Another point expressly directed to load development ... vary your powdah charge! For example, I'm working up loads for targets from 25 to 100-yards for the the upcoming New England flintlock invitational shoot to be held in July, I have a 50-grain load for my 50-cal that puts them all in the same hole @ 25-yards, offhand no less too. But I'll need more velocity for the 100-yard targets.

During benched load development @ 50-yards, 70-grns 3Fg printed a 'repeated' 2-3" group, whilst upping the charge brought the group down to a 'repeated' 1" group. This is due to barrel harmonics of our firelocks, where mine might prefer one charge and your's quite another. And this is why we test ...

Yup. I can't stress load development enough when talking about accuracy. Dutch didn't dream up all his "method" on his own. He just put it into a book that is well worth reading.

 

[jackpine54]

Glad you are getting it dialed in! In both of my .54s I get nice groups with 75-80gr FFFg but if using FFg I need 110-120gr to get the same accuracy. I have a suspicion why but I'm no ballistics guru.

 

[PathfinderNC]

Glad you are getting it dialed in! In both of my .54s I get nice groups with 75-80gr FFFg but if using FFg I need 110-120gr to get the same accuracy. I have a suspicion why but I'm no ballistics guru.

That’s good to know.
My suspicion is that will be my experience with my Fusil de Chasse. I have been working up heavier loads using 2f but suspect less powder may be needed with 3f. Time and testing will tell .

 

[tenngun]

I would be satisfied with both of those groups. Yeas ago not so much. My guns have blade and v sights. And my eyes ain’t the eyes I had thirty years ago.
So when shooting my rifle that should give me one hole is not. While I have done load development and got my smallest groups I honestly don’t know if I could shrink then with further development or if my eyes/ primitive sights combo just can’t hold and see any better
On this target I shot low, filed the sight and moved up. Can’t complain but it ain’t one hole

 

[hanshi]

I'm another one who can no longer shoot well enough to know exactly when/what is the better load.

 

[jackpine54]

That’s good to know.
My suspicion is that will be my experience with my Fusil de Chasse. I have been working up heavier loads using 2f but suspect less powder may be needed with 3f. Time and testing will tell .

My 20 gauge fusil shows the same general trend with a round ball. More ffg is required for same accuracy compared to the fffg. Surprisingly the 20 likes comparable loads to the .54 when using ball. Go figure?