Load For Humane Kill?

[Pete Gaimari]

Now that i've settled on the gun i'll be using for hunting big game. I'd like some opinions on loads for a .54 which I have no experience with.

My limit will be 75 yards. It's all I feel safe with for open sights.

Gun is a Renegade .54. I'll use a PRB and Goex 2F.

How much powder for a humane kill for muley deer and elk. (cow)

Thanks.

 

[DNICK]

First off it must be accurate if you shoot them in the foot it doesnt matter what caliber or load you use, that being said my .54 GPR likes 100 grains of 2F goex and has been a reliable pass through on every mulie ive shot. Duane

 

[William O.]

Start with 60 grains and work up from there to find your most accurate load. My .54 has the 1:48 rate of twist and is happy at 85 grains of Goex 2F. At 100 yards that is enough to take down anything in North America providing you hit it in the right place.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I use 85 gr FFFg in my .54 flintlock rifle and it is plenty for 200 lb whitetails. As far as minimal humane? With round balls I have a rule of thumb: too much is always sufficient.

I use a "squib" load of 42 gr (one empty Colt .45 case) and squirrel/bunny hunt with that in that same .54. It would certainly kill a deer . . . eventually. Probably very well with a perfect hit. But I like to have a cushion for unforseen problems. Twigs, brain farts, unexpected deer movement, etc.

I'd say 60 gr FFg would be as low as I could be comfortable with. Accuracy is certainly important as placement usually trumps power. For elk? I have no idea, unfortunately. Never shot or shot at one.

My T/C Renegade likes 90 gr FFg, 0.018" patch and a 0.530" patched ball. Plenty accurate as far as I can see the sights.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I set my yardage to 75, because that's what I can say i'm accurate at from my knee. I can shoot to 100 yds from a bench, but that's useless in the field. I don't want to lug shooting sticks around the mountains So, 75 from the knee should get me on target.
I know try different loads to see what the gun likes. My concern is when I get to that load. Is it good enough for a kill. I've shot from 70-100 gr of RS Poopydex, and I can't see too much difference in accuracy. I've yet to get my BP order, so, i'm not sure how it will react.

There's a big difference between a muley and a cow elk. It would be nice to use the same load, but it would seem like overkill for the muley if I used an elk load, and maybe not enough for an elk if I use a muley load.

Am I over thinking this? Should I just find the heaviest load that's accurate, and use it for everything?

 

[rabjr]

Am I over thinking this?

Yes

I would think anything from 80 grs on up that is accurate and within your range limit you set should be fine. I like 90grs of powder in my .54s.

 

[Bill Hall]

I second what Swampy says. Let's say 80 to 100 grains, and that will kill anything you want with your renegade. I killed a buck between 70 and 80 yards with a .54 renegade, using 100 grains and a round ball. I also killed a cow elk with my daughter's rifle, which I built using a renegade as my guide. It is a .54 and has a 26" barrel. I was using a round ball with 100 grains, and she dropped in about ten seconds. Hope this helps. Bill

 

[rawhide]

boy I don't know :hmm: I never hunted with a round ball out of my .54 I allways used maxis or real bullets. found that this gun loves 90 grains of 777 FFFg and a 380 real bullet. last elk I shot 3-4 years ago was at around 50 steps she fell almost instantly. waided in at 500 pounds. so with that I say works great on elk should also work on deer.

 

[MikeChapin]

I used to use my Santa Fe, when I used to hunt, on elk. I have never shot one at over 70 yards. Most were around 50.

The Santa Fe with 85 grains 3F and a .520 ball will go all the way through the chest of a medium sized cow at 50 yards. At 70 or so yards the ball can usually be found under the skin of the off side. I never had one go all the way through on a medium to large bull. Most went down where they stood. A few went about 25 yards or so before collapsing. It's all in shot placement and your comfort level of putting a ball in the heart-lung area.

I used a .50 to chase deer so can't help you there. I wouldn't worry about overkill on one though. I would imagine you would get through and through on a large Mulie buck at the ranges you are talking about and there is not much meat in the heart-lung area to ruin.

 

[longbow1]

Capper I have killed several cow elk with a .50 and 80 grains of 2f at just over 50 yrds so it shouldn't be hard to come up with a load that won't break your shoulder with a .54 Just put it where it counts :thumbsup:

 

[nkbj]

Mine likes 80 FFg and a folded flannel patch over the powder. So, that's what I'd use (for now*) until it changes it's mind. That much weight and diameter with 80 FFg plasters as well as most anything at close range.

*It's three years old and still hasn't been shot enough to settle in. The folded patch is a gas dam that prevents gas cutting up those sunburst slits in the patch.
It chokes a little towards the bore so I'm shooting it in rather than lapping.

 

[Black Hand]

75-80gr FFFg, linen patch and .530 RB

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Ok, thanks guys. Now I know where I should be.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

I set my yardage to 75, because that's what I can say i'm accurate at from my knee. I can shoot to 100 yds from a bench, but that's useless in the field. I don't want to lug shooting sticks around the mountains So, 75 from the knee should get me on target.
I know try different loads to see what the gun likes. My concern is when I get to that load. Is it good enough for a kill. I've shot from 70-100 gr of RS Poopydex, and I can't see too much difference in accuracy. I've yet to get my BP order, so, i'm not sure how it will react.

There's a big difference between a muley and a cow elk. It would be nice to use the same load, but it would seem like overkill for the muley if I used an elk load, and maybe not enough for an elk if I use a muley load.

Am I over thinking this? Should I just find the heaviest load that's accurate, and use it for everything?

Hey buddy,
I was checking out another post of yours so I'm gonna kill two birds.
First put a clean out screw on that patent breach so you can properly clean it and make sure you run a 30 cal brush and patch into that patent breach when you are cleaning it.
I hate those damn breaches just for that reason.
Get real Powder and you will lose the hangfires.
Keep that ampco(tresco) nipple it's the best on the market(all I will use).you want a smaller hole in your nipple for consistent accuracy(trust me on this)
and keep shooting the CCI mag caps.
After hundereds of chronoed rounds the CCI mag has the least amount of deviation I have found.
As for a 75 yrds load with a 54, 80 grns of FFG Goex.
Behind the sholder muley or Wapiti won't know the difference It's not over kill on a lung shot.
Site in with 70 grns at 50 yrds and hunt with 80 you will be flat at 75 yrds.
Also FYI
That pure lead ball at 25 yrds will mushroom out to a quarter and stop maby before it gets all they way through the second lung(deer and elk) with that load.
At 50 yrds it will be moving slow enough so that you will get no disruption(double lung shot always) and get clean pass through(my favorite for tracking).
At 75 to 100 yrds you will find the bullet in the hide on the far side.
This is what I have found from the twenty two elk I have harvested.
And Pete put a Green mtn barrel in that rifle of yours.
If you want a short barrel Coyote Joe in Texas Creek(just down the canyon) will cut it and redove tail it for you if he isen't to busy being retired :haha:.
:thumbsup:

 

[saber]

just find out what is the most acurate load is and put the ball where it needs to go. a 50gr load or a 120 gr load in the stomach is not going to get it but eather in the side of the head or in the heart will

 

[saber]

No such thing as over kill dead is dead. We have lower 48s come up here and bring there 458 winchester cal or 373 H&H cals and they think they can shot a moose anyplace and it will did well it will not it is were you put the shot I use a 44inch 54cal and a 31inch 58 cal for moose and the 54 works best with 80grs 3f and 58 gets 100grs 2f have lost no moose and all have been 1-shot kills with a few gettin a shot from a 54 cal hand flinter just as a walk up finisher just put the shot in the right place

 

[Pete Gaimari]

You know i'm going to listen to you. I just hope I can find a GM barrel. The .54's are hard to find, and it doesn't look like GM is making them anymore. I need to keep Joe busy cutting my barrel. :grin:

I'm setting the gun up more for hunting now, so I might put a peep on it. I'd like to extend my distance to 100 yds if I can. If not. 75 yds it is.


A much better response than I expected. Thanks again everybody. :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Dragging "Shooting sticks" may be a bother, but you can easily use a single, light weight, SKI pole to help in walking and to use as a support for those long shots.

I buy "singles", Cheap, from the ski rental stores after the season. I remove the basket and point, by dipping that end into a bucket of boiling water, to soften the glue. The baskets come right off. I then put a kitchen table chair "bumper" available from most hardware stores, on the bottom the pole. The wrist strap allows me to hold onto the pole when I need my hands to do something with my gun or gear. Yet, the pole is always at "hand", when I need it. For going up and down places, that extra "foot" has saved me from falls, and bruises, and probably from a broken leg or ankle several times.

You can make a taller "walking stick from any good hard wood- strong enough to hold your weight-- and add a wrist strap to it, to accomplish the same thing. Again, those rubber chair bumper pads are available in a wide range of sizes from the hardware, and home improvement stores. The ski pole works fine as a " Mono-pod" when kneeling or sitting down. A taller walking stick might be needed if you want an assist for off-hand shooting.

The secret to getting the same kind of stability for your gun that you might get from using "cross-sticks", is to kick the bottom of the stick out toward your target, so that you form a triangle where the stick is held next to the forestock of your gun.

I hold my pole in my fingers, and rest my forestock on my opened thumb. Its fairly easy to learn how to walk your fingers up and down a pole to raise or lower the POA. I have also had success simply resting my forestock across my opposite wrist to shoot.

I recommend practicing the use of a walking stick as a shooting rest, in the off-season, by using a .22 rifle, to shoot varmints, or plinking targets of opportunity, so that you learn how to take a position and make an accurate shot quickly using the stick for support.

I know guys who who make walking sticks, carve them, seal them with varnish or gun stock finishing oils, and use them for years when going for walks in the brush and boonies. The stick allows you a "third leg", helps you balance going up and down steep slopes, lets you push aside bramble, and brush and branches to your clothing doesn't get torn, or stabbed, and gives you a good " pointer" when showing a friend or family members tracks and sign you read on the ground. :thumbsup:


PS: There are other barrel makers who can make you a replacement barrel, for less. You may have to find and put on the half rib, the hangers, and the sights, but I would not wait for GM to make another batch of Drop-ins, were I in your position. Contact Chuck Burton. He makes great barrels at reasonable prices. I am sure he will do as much work as he can for you, including putting a T/C breechplug in the barrel. If you send him your current barrel and tang, I suspect he will fit the plug to the tang, too.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Paul,

I'm a fly fisherman. I know how much a single stick can help with balance. We call them wading staffs. Mine collapses, and I carry it in a pouch on my belt. It really helps going up and down banks of a river. Getting old, and losing sight in one eye has really messed with my balance. I move slowly now.

I did try a single shooting rod. As much as I fooled with it and tried to get it to work. I never felt comfortable with it. It always wanted to move side to side no matter how much I tried to get it in the right position. Under the pressure of a shot in front of me I don't think it would help, but hurt me.

All my life hunting I've taken the kneeling position. It's rare that I can't use that position. With my arm braced on my knees I can hold pretty steady.

I'll check out your tip on the barrel.


I have a question I've been meaning to ask you. How big should the bull be on a offhand 100 yd ML target be?

 

[William O.]

Just to clarify, I meant that 60 grains would be a good place to start for working up that most accurate load, not as a starting point for hunting. I think at 60 grains the velocity as well as downrange energy would be too low to ensure a clean kill. I'd say 75 grains of powder would be the least amount I'd be comfortable with for hunting deer sized game, assuming that would give me enough accuracy to properly place the ball. For elk I would find the most accurate powder charge for my rifle towards the maximum, between 85 & 100 grains of 2F Goex.