Load only five of six chambers?

[Pete Gaimari]

Sam Colt sold more guns to the civilian market than the military. More 1849 pocket revolvers (little five shot .31) were made than any other percussion Colt. 1851 navy was a close second.

Pocket revolver is not exactly a gun for war. Lets talk about a real gun. The 1860.
Quote:

"The Colt 1860 Army uses the same size frame as the .36 caliber 1851 Navy revolver. The frame is relieved to allow the use of a rebated cylinder that enables the Army to be chambered in .44 caliber. Also, the barrel on the 1860 Army has a forcing cone that is visibly shorter than that of the 1851 Navy, allowing the Army revolver to have a longer cylinder. A major distinguishing feature introduced with the 1860 revolver was the "creeping" loading lever. This arrangement employs a cam interface between lever and barrel and is intended to prevent the lever from dropping and tying up the revolver if it should recoil loose from the barrel catch during firing.
More than 200,000 were manufactured from 1860 through 1873. Colt's biggest customer was the US Government with over 127,000 units being purchased and issued to the troops. The weapon was a single-action, six-shot weapon accurate up to 75 to 100 yards, where the fixed sights were typically set when manufactured. The rear sight was a notch in the hammer, clearly visible only when the revolver was cocked."

 

[Dphar]

Sounds like carelessness to me. I mean, accidents happen, sure (I shot a hole through the roof of my porch about eight years ago, my own carelessness :redface: ) but there's always a reason. I don't mean to anger anyone, everyone has their own way of doing things, but Sam Colt didn't design the cylinder with six chambers just so a fellow could leave one empty. If a fellow follows the proper safety steps,(proper type of holster, safety notches/pins) he'll be fine. Like I said, everyone has their own way. That's what makes the world go round.

The pins on a Colt C&B will not keep the cylinder from turning if its carried much. Though a flap type holster helps.
Going in to a gun fight is different than hunting or going to the store.
The loading of 6 chambers has been standard practive for a long time.
If a cartridge/cap is under the hammer and the hammer is struck by something. Like stirrup while saddling.
Of if the gun falls and lands of the hammer. Its gonns go off.


Dan

 

[Zonie]

Lets get back to the subject at hand for the moment rather than getting into specific gun designs.

The subject is should a person load all of the chambers in the cylinder or leave one empty for the hammer to rest on when the gun is not in use?

When I'm target shooting at the range for my own amusement I usually load 6 chambers in my Colts and Remingtons.
I sometimes load just 5 chambers because that seems kinda natural to me because of my old target competation days where targets were shot in strings of 5 shots.
Anyway, if loading at the bench is permitted at the range (at some ranges it is not) I see nothing wrong with loading all 6 chambers there.

If I must load from a loading area behind the bench I never cap the nipples until I have moved to the bench and the muzzle is pointed downrange.

For loading the revolver for carrying the gun it in a holster I was taught by my dad to always leave one chamber unloaded for safety.

He claimed that this was the common thing to do with all of the old Colt revolvers and that the cowboys and other civilians who carried their guns at all times as a normal piece of equipment all followed this unwritten rule.

It made sense to me then and it still does.

For those people who are actually carrying their revolvers into battle in wartime conditions loading all of the chambers was common but I can't think of a war time condition that exists now that would require doing this.

 

[mjn]

Pocket revolver is not exactly a gun for war

Right, but you said "Sam Colt was making the guns for war" in your previous post. He didn't make all guns for war. He made them for "private" carry also.

Lets talk about a real gun

The gun you happen to mention to prove your point, just happened to come out right at the start of a war, hence the large amount of military purchases. Do you not consider the 1851 navy a "real" gun? They were more popular than the 1860. Around 250,000 were made,(1850-1873) with most of the production ending up in civilian hands. This has nothing really to do with the topic though, with all due respect.

 

[Norinco]

I'm sure plenty of accidents happened with those pistols in pockets and under belts, still probably didn't stop people from carrying fully loaded. My guess the majority of people then carried fully loaded either on half cock or with the hammer between cylinders.

 

[mjn]

He claimed that this was the common thing to do with all of the old Colt revolvers and that the cowboys and other civilians who carried their guns at all times as a normal piece of equipment all followed this unwritten rule

From everything I have ever read on this, it always seems to be in reference to the 1873 Colt, as it had no safety notches/pins.

 

[himem777]

You could experiment with an empty gun thats capped. just see how easy they go off.

 

[mjn]

I'm sure plenty of accidents happened with those pistols in pockets and under belts

Heck, it still happens. I remember reading about a D.C. policeman, that was chasing a "suspect". The cop jumped over a fence, and when he landed (on his feet) his service weapon (Glock 9mm) went off (it was in his holster) shooting him through both legs. He recovered, just fine, however. :applause:

 

[mjn]

The pins on a Colt C&B will not keep the cylinder from turning if its carried much.

How does the cylinder turn, in a snug fitting holster, that covers the hammer spur? Just curious.

 

[CaptainKirk]

Just for grins, say you pull the gun, hammer down on a capped, loaded chamber, from your safe, secure, flapped holster. It slips, and falls from your grip to the ground, butt-first, and lands on the hammer spur...on a rock...on a capped loaded chamber. Think it might go off?
It might not. But I wouldn't bet MY life on it.
I'm sure you are a careful, safety-conscious shooter. But stranger things than the above have happened.

 

I have a Colt (reproduction) 1851 Navy revolver. I've read that only five of the six chambers should be loaded, and the hammer lowered on the empty chamber - for safety. Is this correct, and why?

Wouldn't it be just as safe to load all the chambers, and keep it at half-cock until ready to fire? I'm talking about loading the gun on the range - ready to shoot the entire cylinder.
Doug

There is an old adage, "Don't go off half cock." Better safe than sorry.

I know I wouldn't want a headstone that read:

He didn't die because he was sick,
rather he died because he loaded six.
He dropped his gun
and now he's done.

In the days of percussion firearms, one had the horse to deal with. My Great Great Grandad, during the American civil war, ended up with a double hernia, while on a foraging detail, because of a "fractious mount". The nag threw him.

Not everyone carried a holster, handguns were stuck in belts, sashes, waistbands and pockets. Mounting and dismounting horses saw scores of dropped handguns. I have to wonder how many went off killing rider and/or horse, or even a bystander.

Far better to caution on the side of safety, than error.

 

[zoomer]

My bosses brother inlaw.He went out to put down a sick cow,loaded his pistol,put it in the holster and hung it from the dash on his tractor.Hit a bump,the whole thing dropped.The bullet went out the bottom of the holster and struck him in the neck.He bled out before he reached the house.

 

[Stophel]

The empty chamber thing is for the Colt SAA (cartridge) and other guns that don't have rebounding hammers or firing pins, or hammer blocks, etc. There's no place to put an SAA hammer down between chambers, so, it goes on an empty. Not something that is really required for a percussion gun with a safety pin or notch for the hammer to sit on.

There are people to this day that think they have to put the hammer down on an empty chamber even in modern double action revolvers. :shake:

And nobody's suggesting that anyone carry a percussion pistol with the hammer down on a live cap. A fully loaded percussion pistol can have the hammer set down safely. The pins/notches are between the chambers, so the hammer isn't sitting on a loaded chamber, it's not even sitting on a chamber at all!

 

[CoyoteJoe]

For me it is simple. I KNOW I can safely carry five, whereas six falls somewhere between maybe and probably. In weighing risk versus gain, the risk may be slight but the gain seems pretty much zero. If I feel I may really NEED more than five shots I'm carrying the wrong gun in the first place.
Freak accidents do not happen only to freaks.

 

[mjn]

Just for grins, say you pull the gun, hammer down on a capped, loaded chamber, from your safe, secure, flapped holster. It slips, and falls from your grip to the ground, butt-first, and lands on the hammer spur...on a rock...on a capped loaded chamber. Think it might go off?

Please tell me where I advocate carrying the hammer on a live cap. I have said a few times I put the hammer on the safety notch/pin.

 

[mjn]

My bosses brother inlaw.He went out to put down a sick cow,loaded his pistol,put it in the holster and hung it from the dash on his tractor.Hit a bump,the whole thing dropped.The bullet went out the bottom of the holster and struck him in the neck.He bled out before he reached the house.

Again, carelessness. Holsters were not meant to be hung from a tractor. Had the poor fellow been wearing the holster, the whole incident wouldn't have happened. This is my point, when you do things you are not supposed to do with firearms, holsters, etc...you're asking for an accident. That's why I keep saying "follow the proper safety procedures".

 

[mjn]

There is an old adage, "Don't go off half cocked."

That saying actually came from the use of flintlock guns. So did "a flash in the pan"

Not everyone carried a holster, handguns were stuck in belts, sashes, waistbands and pockets. Mounting and dismounting horses saw scores of dropped handguns.

If they had been carried in holsters, they would not have been dropped. :wink:

 

[David W.]

I don't know why to argue over the "sixth" shot. Pistols didn't used have the safeties as present modern guns.

I like the scene in "The Shootist" when Gillom asked Books, "why only load five shots"? Books answered, "it's for safety, load six shots if your insides tells you to".

 

[Pete Gaimari]

My bosses brother inlaw.He went out to put down a sick cow,loaded his pistol,put it in the holster and hung it from the dash on his tractor.Hit a bump,the whole thing dropped.The bullet went out the bottom of the holster and struck him in the neck.He bled out before he reached the house.

Again, carelessness. Holsters were not meant to be hung from a tractor. Had the poor fellow been wearing the holster, the whole incident wouldn't have happened. This is my point, when you do things you are not supposed to do with firearms, holsters, etc...you're asking for an accident. That's why I keep saying "follow the proper safety procedures".

CAS competition is all about safety. We use full load live ammo/loads. We have draw and fire two revolvers. We run to different stations and shoot. We also use a rifle and shotgun. It's fast paced, because it's a speed and accuracy event. All the shooters are very experienced. A mistake can kill someone. It's kind of like real life, because you can make a mistake under pressure.

You load 6 rounds in your revolver, and you'll be kicked out for life. Why? Because it's NOT safe.

Stuff happens. Guns are not something to be taking the slightest chance with. A million to one are still bad odds.

 

[David W.]

My bosses brother inlaw.He went out to put down a sick cow,loaded his pistol,put it in the holster and hung it from the dash on his tractor.Hit a bump,the whole thing dropped.The bullet went out the bottom of the holster and struck him in the neck.He bled out before he reached the house.

Again, carelessness. Holsters were not meant to be hung from a tractor. Had the poor fellow been wearing the holster, the whole incident wouldn't have happened. This is my point, when you do things you are not supposed to do with firearms, holsters, etc...you're asking for an accident. That's why I keep saying "follow the proper safety procedures".

CAS competition is all about safety. We use full load live ammo/loads. We have draw and fire two revolvers. We run to different stations and shoot. We also use a rifle and shotgun. It's fast paced, because it's a speed and accuracy event. All the shooters are very experienced. A mistake can kill someone. It's kind of like real life, because you can make a mistake under pressure.

You load 6 rounds in your revolver, and you'll be kicked out for life. Why? Because it's NOT safe.

Stuff happens. Guns are not something to be taking the slightest chance with. A million to one are still bad odds.

Stuff happens

It certainly does.