Load quantity help with Pioneer..

[redneckbling]

I have a Cabelas Traditional Hawken in 50 cal. made by Investarms. In the booklet they call for 90gr g-ffg or 70 gr g-fffg. This is for .49 patched round ball. I was mistakenly loading 80gr of Pioneer FFFG. See I thought I had FFG and never realized it was FFFG! Dumb...I know.
So I did some more searching on the internet and found a black powder conversion table that states for a 90 grain load of FFG I should use 76.5 gr of Pioneer in FFG.
Because I HAVE Pioneer in FFFG I read that to mean look at what they are calling for in a 70gr FFG in black powder....says 59.5gr of pioneer!
Does this seem right? And does this mean I was shooting 20gr too much Pioneer powder each time?
You don't think this harmed anything do you? As I was cleaning the barrell I thought it was a little looser at the bottom of the barrell with the cleaning jag and patch. Is it suposed to be? Do the barrell manufacturers "back bore" where the charge sits in the breech? Or am I over thinking this?

 

[ord sgt]

From my experience, all manufacturers over build the barrels to withstand heavy powder charges. They don't want lawsuits from barrels blowing up.

 

[bpbrs]

59 sounds ok, I found that 65 worked great in my renegade. 50 cal 490 18ths patched

 

[Pittsburghunter]

Well, OK, someone has to ask might as well be me. How did it shoot with the 80g charge of Pioneer?

Did it feel overcharged? Did it blow the hammer back to half cocked?

 

[redneckbling]

Wow...blow the hammer back? NO it felt fine seemed to pattern consistantly too. I also felt the recoil was decent...less than say shooting 12 gauge slugs.

 

[Pittsburghunter]

OK, you are probabally "OK" as far as the rifle and all goes. I would just work up a good load starting with 70g or so. Some people like light loads I don't.

What does your manual tell you is the max black powder charge?

 

[torn moc]

I know nothing about Pioneer powder. I use GOEX.
You should stick with the time tested goex. and 80 to 90 grains of Goex FFF should be just fine.
what the heck is Pioneer powder anyway....when did they start makin it???????
is it a "Substitute"? ......Yuk

 

[rice1817]

I think that they are mixing apples and oranges. 90 grains of black powder by volume takes up the same amount of space as 90 grains of Pioneer by volume. However, Pioneer is less dense than black, so the 90 grains by volume of black, which yields approximately 90 grains by weight of black, is only going to give you the 76.5 grains of Pioneer by weight.

Same thing with Pyrodex. It is lighter than black so the same measure setting will give you a lighter charge by weight.

 

[Doe]

I would give "pioneer" a call if your r not sure or can u get a hold of them on the internet? I know that some "subs" you should reduce load, like 777 and some don't. Good luck :thumbsup:

 

[BigDave]

American Pioneer is another sulferless powder BP replacement like 777.

I can't find a MSDS to find the ingredients, but it's supposed to be stronger than BP and much easier to clean than 777, so it probably uses a different fuel than charcoal, maybe sugar, lactose, or ascorbic acid as well as being spiked with a better oxidizer than KNO3.

Note it's stronger by grain weight, but appears to be fluffed up like pyrodex so weighs less than BP so it's hard to say how strong it compares by measured grain.

 

[windwalker_au]

I have a Cabelas Traditional Hawken in 50 cal. made by Investarms. In the booklet they call for 90gr g-ffg or 70 gr g-fffg. This is for .49 patched round ball. I was mistakenly loading 80gr of Pioneer FFFG. See I thought I had FFG and never realized it was FFFG! Dumb...I know.
So I did some more searching on the internet and found a black powder conversion table that states for a 90 grain load of FFG I should use 76.5 gr of Pioneer in FFG.
Because I HAVE Pioneer in FFFG I read that to mean look at what they are calling for in a 70gr FFG in black powder....says 59.5gr of pioneer!
Does this seem right? And does this mean I was shooting 20gr too much Pioneer powder each time?
You don't think this harmed anything do you? As I was cleaning the barrell I thought it was a little looser at the bottom of the barrell with the cleaning jag and patch. Is it suposed to be? Do the barrell manufacturers "back bore" where the charge sits in the breech? Or am I over thinking this?

your barrel and breech plug is the same as the lyman trade rifle they are made by investarms so you where safe with that load.
bernie :thumbsup:

 

[maypo59]

You only need to "reduce" the load between BP and Pioneer if you are measuring your powder charge by WEIGHT. As long as you measure by volume (as most BP shooters do) you are shooting a charge that is comparable to the BP charge power wise. I looked into it pretty deep since I got some for x-mas.

 

[faw3]

Your lucky you live up north, down here during hot summers (at least in E Texas) that stuff sucks water out of the air and turns powder into slop or cakes you have to break up before yyou can even load it. "ascorbic acid as well as being spiked with a better oxidizer than KNO3." This is about right if I remember it right (I threw it away for some 777, more power and no yucking up) Ive got the same rifle as your's that my youngst son had to have in 54 cal and we use 80 in it, I'd say your right on target with 80 yourself and STOP trying to weight the stuff unless for a cart, no need at all, the company " Investarms" knows how "Americans are about power" so its over built to whats wrote up - no worry 80,90 grs 3 f your in safe and good starting point to find your load." As I was cleaning the barrell I thought it was a little looser at the bottom of the barrell with the cleaning jag and patch. Is it suposed to be? Do the barrell manufacturers "back bore" where the charge sits in the breech? Or am I over thinking this? " Ya they do that,its normal. Fred :hatsoff: