Loading from flask to barrel

[webghost]

Hi all,

So I know that loading powder from a flask directly into a barrel is a bad idea due to the residual embers that may still be hot but what about loading the flask directly into each individual revolver chamber using a spout? I love using spouts as they save a lot of time so basically just want to know if it can be done for both real black powder and also substitute black powder.

Thanks all,
web

 

[FishDFly]

In NMLRA sanctioned shoots, your desire is not allowed or deemed safe.

 

[Rusty_Nail]

All it takes is one ember...

And trying to rush, as I have found on occasion , tends to create mistakes, and you do things like a dry ball. Then you spend more time pulling the ball than you would have spent using a measure!

 

[webghost]

Makes total sense. It's better to be on the safe side. Thanks all for your helpful information.

 

[M. De Land]

Rules are rules but at times they don't make a whole lot of sense.
The pre-measured spouts on flasks were designed to throw powder charges into revolver cylinders, they were not designed to be funnels for a second powder measure.
The only trouble one will ever have with hot embers is when wadding of some kind is used. Mike D.

 

[Rusty_Nail]

Make it an enjoyable step in the process. I only shoot flinters and black powder, so I made this lil guy for powder and prime. Its a broken off antler, at the brow tine and crown. Has an incremented 60-90 gr. measure, and a pan primer with about 30 gr. of 4Fg in it.

You can make them a specific gr. size, or multiples.

Sorry the pics aint the best!

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

I'm with M.D. on this one. You don’t need to use a measure when loading revolvers. I will never shoot at a sanctioned event for this and a few other ridicules rules. I have shot thousands of rounds through my revolvers loading straight from the flask into each cylinder and regardless of the heat, humidity, and number of shots fired never have I seen an ember in a cylinder.

I shoot my revolvers at Cowboy Action Shooting matches and with shooting and doing all your other posse duties you only have so much time to reload and it is not unusual to fire 50 to 100 rounds through your pistols in a day.

I have shot with many others who shoot cap n’ ball revolvers for CAS and I have never seen any of them use a measure. It is a preposterous set of conditions that we are being protected from by these rules.

Now a rifle is a different animal the length of barrel the coarseness of the powder that can be used in them makes the possibility of an ember more of an issue. But even there you are not allowed to blow down the barrel at sanctioned matches. What sense does that make?

Rant over.

 

[hawkeye2]

The North-South Skirmish Association does not allow loading a revolver from a flask, horn, or other container. All loads must be premeasured and in individual containers Of course you can always do as you please but at least check the rules for the match you are going to shoot and come prepared. Better to ask than be asked to leave.

 

[PRM]

Another thumbs up for MD. Don't know about sanctioned shoots, as I don't participate in them. My shooting is usually on a private range or the farm. I have been shooting C&Bs since the mid-70s. I've always loaded from the flask directly into the chamber and have never had an issue. That is how the originals were done - it works.

 

[bpd303]

I have also been charging my revolvers from the flask for well over 50 years without any mishap. However when I shoot at any matches, I adhere to the rules no matter how stupid I think they are. They are in place to protect the organizers from liability. My rifles are charged from a horn & separate measure attached to it.

 

[AZbpBurner]

Sanctioned events involve insurance & liability issues, which automatically interject lawyers into the mix. And where lawyers dwell, CYA terminology, procedures & minutiae rule the day. Not to disregard the importance of safety foremost in the shooting sports, but in order to be a hazard, a reasonable certainty of its' occurrence must exist.

Tiny grains of smouldering 3F powder residue in chambers are unlikely in everyday, real world range shooting. Otherwise, you would see postings requiring your bucket of quenching water & of wet bore swabs, posted next to the ear plugs & safety glasses plackards.

Avoid sanctioned events & their weasel words, and shoot at your range with the knowledge that nothing bad will happen to your flask if you load directly into a revolver cylinder's chamber.

 

[ChrisPer]

I have seen potential embers in a revolver cylinder, when a guy made paper cartridges with cigarette papers and rammed them whole into his cylinder. The little twist on the end stayed in the back of the cylinder, all charred. I found it blocking the nipple when trying to figure why the subsequent shots didn't fire. Recommendation: make paper cartridges to be torn and the powder poured in.

 

[ChrisPer]

There have been a number of kabooms, some resulting in damaged hands and others in fatalities.

One class of incident is caused by not embers, but this:

David Sargeant photo

Open containers of powder go whump when those sparks blow into the powder; but in Europe at an indoor range the container was not open when the powder went off. The carpet on the shooting bench had an accumulation of spilt powder over time, and the spark set that off and THAT set off the flask. That was a fatality of the shooter.

 

[M. De Land]

Even that won't set off a properly operating flask as it is always a closed container,either with your finger over the spout or the spring loaded gate. One or the other is always blocking the flask powder.
Quality Black powder alone just does not leave embers smoldering after the conflagration of the charge. Any additions to it like paper or wadding of some kind does regularly leave embers smoldering. Mike D.

 

[necchi]

This argument has been kicked around forever.
Both parties are right in their own sense,
But for those of us that have been victim to random tragedy,
those kinds of accidents that only happen to others(!?),
that have harmed or killed family members or close friends tend to take a different view of risk taking that can be so simply avoided.

Keep that in mind when you argue that "Nothing has ever happened to me, therefore it's OK ", because some people have had things happen.

Too me it makes no sence to load any ML or cylinder from a flask when it so easy not too, :idunno:
A few seconds at most to toss a load than drop it? There's a lot of morons out there Michael and when they read crap like this it gives them impetus to try even more risky stuff.
"Hold my Beer, Watch this"

 

[M. De Land]

I just feel that flask loading gets an undeserved black eye from the general ignorance and prejudice against the proper use of this traditional means of charging a revolving arm. Most folks have no clue that a flask is always closed off by ones finger over the spout or the spring loaded gate. They just hear that it's a bomb about to explode which simply is not the truth.
A flask seldom spills any powder at all, this is not the case with separate measures filled from open containers ,flasks or powder horns which are the real culprits to most accidents.
I see both these risks routinely at organized matches and no one seems the care but load from a flask and you get the evil eye or are asked to leave. Seems like once a false notion takes root ignorance rules no matter how many facts one can point out.
I use both a separate adjustable powder measure and a flask regularly and the separate measure spills ten time the powder around compared to the flask. Mike D.

 

[AZbpBurner]

I have seen potential embers in a revolver cylinder, when a guy made paper cartridges with cigarette papers and rammed them whole into his cylinder. The little twist on the end stayed in the back of the cylinder, all charred. I found it blocking the nipple when trying to figure why the subsequent shots didn't fire. Recommendation: make paper cartridges to be torn and the powder poured in.

OK, good point. Maybe I'm a little more direct & simplistic in my view of loading revolver chambers being limited to pouring powder, stuffing in a wad & then seating a ball. I once tried nitrated paper that was touted to "burn completely" and reality of it was that there was a lot of unburned powder left.

It would seem to be a no-brainer if one were to add superfluous steps & extra materials such as lawn sweepings, dryer lint, rolling paper & other junk that actually would be prone to residual embers, that they would be intelligent enough to maybe swab out the bore as a part of their loading routine. But it's a generous squint & stretch to indicate that embers are a definite problem when using solely powder, ball & greased patch.

 

[Many Klatch]

I did that very thing the other day. It had been a while and I forgot to use my measure. I noticed that the powder was blocking up in the spout and I was not sure how much was getting in the chambers. Switching to the measure solved that problem.

One of the problems with the premeasured spouts is that you are never 100% sure how much powder really gets into the gun. The other is the safety aspect.

Many Klatch

 

[M. De Land]

Use real black powder and keep it dry and you'll never have to wonder if the spout is full or not.
Far as I can detect they are at least as accurate and consistent of a powder drop as a measure, used correctly.
We accepted more risk without question every time we load a muzzle loading rifle. The likely hood of injury here from an "AD" is greater.
Another real Lulu of dangerous practice is pulling a stuck ball from a charged rifle even if we do keep our body from alignment with the muzzle. This is especially true for those of us who use range rods. If the arm were to discharge with a rigid and usually heavy range rod in place the barrel would almost certainly rupture.
Now should we eliminate risk where ever and when ever possible, certainly so, but charging a revolver from a flask is so far down the ladder of exceptable risk as to not even compare to many others that should be addressed and aren't.
Spilled powder from powder measures is a huge one in my opinion. It wouldn't surprise me at all if one were to find that five or ten percent of every pound of powder bought is lost through powder measure spillage at the shooting range. Mike D.

 

[pargent]

Well I load from the flask for revolver and a measure( brass thimble ) for pistol. All this stems from 2 different classes of shooters , the bullseye crowd and the more historical rondy & sass crowd .The bullseye guys usually only shoot their matches and have the idea that their rules and procedures are the only way to use and handle these firearms on a range , there is some merit to this with a line of shooters all fireing at the same time , where as with rondy etc. there is only 1 shooter at the line in our matches at a time . This becomes a problem when people cross compete and get a rectal bug issue because these guys are doing it different and won't adapt for the match . As I shoot both types of matches I find it no real issue to change loading habits , just pour into a measure then into the chamber, I don't however dismantle my revolver to clean it every 5 shot string or to reload it ,every thing needed is in a HCPC case and is period correct for that revolver or pistol :stir: The rondy matches are my favourite as targets are different shapes and distances etc. I use the bullseye stuff to try and keep my eye in and just try to ignore the babble . My competition revolvers are bog stock Pieta and Uberti the only modification I had to make was to me , retuned to 1850
NB. for the US guys we throw in revolvers into our rondy matches down here for competition sake and not for historical reasons