Loading revolvers question.

[Codger Craig Wilcox]

What paper is currently used for paper-wrapped cartridges? I have several .44-cal revolvers, and one .36 cal, and would love to experiment a bit with paper cartridges.

 

[Zulch]

I’ve read that some folks are using beauty supplies like papers that are used for permanents with great success.

 

[Erwan]

I’ve read that some folks are using beauty supplies like papers that are used for permanents with great success.

You mean Curling paper ?... Bofff...
Nitrated Japanese calligraphy paper (I find no more airmail paper) with a very light layer of shellac (lots of alcohol for very little shellac) just to stiffen and seal if I'm doing a lot of advance cartridges, otherwise nothing at all.
No misfires and no residue...

 

[Red Owl]

I

What paper is currently used for paper-wrapped cartridges? I have several .44-cal revolvers, and one .36 cal, and would love to experiment a bit with paper cartridges.

You can use a variety of papers. Cigarette paper was used a lot and there is a better paper related to magic tricks, Flash paper?. THERE IS A LOT OF CONFUSION about paper, etc. so let me do a very quick review. What ever was used to hold the powder had to be "breakable", that is, the force of the cap had to rupture the case and explode the powder. Then there was the problem with residue or fouling left in the chamber. If it was flammable, such as paper, this residue could hold a live ember. If you tried loading another round- it would blow up right in your face. Colt tried tin foil. The only source that had extremely thin tin was in Germany and he imported it. The tin would not hold an ember but after 6 rounds there was so much residue in the chamber that you could not seat another round- the end of the bullet would be sticking out beyond the end of the cylinder and the cylinder would not rotate. Colt then tried paper. It was treated with several different chemicals to ensure it completely burned up. The residue was corrosive but no one cared- the ammunition was targeted toward military use.
I've used thin foil and got about 30% ignition. I've used heavy newspaper and got about 70% ignition. The cigarette paper- if you have a single layer at the bottom- has always given me 100% ignition but INSPECT the chamber to make sure no embers remain if you reload.
IF you just want to play around- load up up powder and ball- the usual way and have your combustibles nearby and fire off the ball- there won't be any embers, and then see how fast you can load the combustibles. The big delay is capping the nipples.
There is a lot of information on the net so check it out. Folks collect original ammunition. It was kept in small wood boxes about the size of a deck of cards and there was a ripcord to yank- this cut off the label and exposed the ammunition.
With a pair of revolvers- if you were behind a rock, etc. you could keep up a steady fire. Buffalo Bill and a partner got surrounded by hostile NDNs and they had Army Colts and kept them at bay all day.

 

[Joemolf]

It ought to be pointed out that years ago there wasn't "round" balls, the mold had a sprue cutter but the ball still had a flat sprue and this was normally oriented toward the muzzle so the flat sprue hit first- sort of like a semi-wadcutter.
Dixie Gun Works has/has historically correct conical bullets with the rebated base for the case. I've shot these and in my opinion they get moved out of alignment when rammed into the chamber and are not as accurate as the balls. A lot of Western lawman would load with balls and as much powder as the gun could hold but carried the combustible cartridges for back up.

Ball rock over conicals someone did a video on YouTube and the ball won. conicals severally over penetrate as do full metal jackets. Ball flattened letting a lot of air in and if it wasn’t Levi layered gelatin blood out. Those paper cartridges wth era’s gone bullets are certainly convenient and very cool. Colt 1851/60 are very accurate weapon at distance love them even Uberties!

 

[Joemolf]

I

You can use a variety of papers. Cigarette paper was used a lot and there is a better paper related to magic tricks, Flash paper?. THERE IS A LOT OF CONFUSION about paper, etc. so let me do a very quick review. What ever was used to hold the powder had to be "breakable", that is, the force of the cap had to rupture the case and explode the powder. Then there was the problem with residue or fouling left in the chamber. If it was flammable, such as paper, this residue could hold a live ember. If you tried loading another round- it would blow up right in your face. Colt tried tin foil. The only source that had extremely thin tin was in Germany and he imported it. The tin would not hold an ember but after 6 rounds there was so much residue in the chamber that you could not seat another round- the end of the bullet would be sticking out beyond the end of the cylinder and the cylinder would not rotate. Colt then tried paper. It was treated with several different chemicals to ensure it completely burned up. The residue was corrosive but no one cared- the ammunition was targeted toward military use.
I've used thin foil and got about 30% ignition. I've used heavy newspaper and got about 70% ignition. The cigarette paper- if you have a single layer at the bottom- has always given me 100% ignition but INSPECT the chamber to make sure no embers remain if you reload.
IF you just want to play around- load up up powder and ball- the usual way and have your combustibles nearby and fire off the ball- there won't be any embers, and then see how fast you can load the combustibles. The big delay is capping the nipples.
There is a lot of information on the net so check it out. Folks collect original ammunition. It was kept in small wood boxes about the size of a deck of cards and there was a ripcord to yank- this cut off the label and exposed the ammunition.
With a pair of revolvers- if you were behind a rock, etc. you could keep up a steady fire. Buffalo Bill and a partner got surrounded by hostile NDNs and they had Army Colts and kept them at bay all day.

Check out Eras Gone using a Clif Manely mandrel which I have in 36 and 44 before he past. Mark s video is excellent knock offs can be purchased elsewhere fun stuff never had one that did go Big Bang

 

[Codger Craig Wilcox]

I

You can use a variety of papers. Cigarette paper was used a lot and there is a better paper related to magic tricks, Flash paper?. THERE IS A LOT OF CONFUSION about paper, etc. so let me do a very quick review. What ever was used to hold the powder had to be "breakable", that is, the force of the cap had to rupture the case and explode the powder. Then there was the problem with residue or fouling left in the chamber. If it was flammable, such as paper, this residue could hold a live ember. If you tried loading another round- it would blow up right in your face. Colt tried tin foil. The only source that had extremely thin tin was in Germany and he imported it. The tin would not hold an ember but after 6 rounds there was so much residue in the chamber that you could not seat another round- the end of the bullet would be sticking out beyond the end of the cylinder and the cylinder would not rotate. Colt then tried paper. It was treated with several different chemicals to ensure it completely burned up. The residue was corrosive but no one cared- the ammunition was targeted toward military use.
I've used thin foil and got about 30% ignition. I've used heavy newspaper and got about 70% ignition. The cigarette paper- if you have a single layer at the bottom- has always given me 100% ignition but INSPECT the chamber to make sure no embers remain if you reload.
IF you just want to play around- load up up powder and ball- the usual way and have your combustibles nearby and fire off the ball- there won't be any embers, and then see how fast you can load the combustibles. The big delay is capping the nipples.
There is a lot of information on the net so check it out. Folks collect original ammunition. It was kept in small wood boxes about the size of a deck of cards and there was a ripcord to yank- this cut off the label and exposed the ammunition.
With a pair of revolvers- if you were behind a rock, etc. you could keep up a steady fire. Buffalo Bill and a partner got surrounded by hostile NDNs and they had Army Colts and kept them at bay all day.

Red Owl, and others - many thanks for the all-inclusive responses! I have a total of four revolvers, plus a couple of flintlocks, and one double barreled 12 ga percussion pistol. Three of the revolvers are .44, one is a .36 - AND ALL THESE HAVE NEVER BEEN FIRED!
Until this past week, when I met up with a fellow forum member, I had no place to go shoot. I am a disabled Vietnam Vet, and have some mobility issues. This fellow lives less than 20 miles away, and is building a range adjacent to his home. It will be completed soon, and the shooting will begin.
I do have a very limited experience with Civil War-era revolvers. When I was 15 and 16, I lived in Northern Virginia, outside DC. A friend of my Dad's was a history prof at U. Maryland, and he had formed one of the early N-SSA teams. I was outfitted in an original Civil War Naval uniform, with an original .58 cal Springfield musket and an original Civil War revolver. We travelled around various military bases, competing on their rifle ranges with the muskets, and every once in a while, the revolvers. "Landing Party of the USS Constellation, a sister frigate to Old Ironsides, USS Constitution. We also re-enacted the Battle of Bull Run at Manassas, VA, on the 100th anniversary of the battle. Shortly after, Dad retired from the Navy, and took a civilian job in south Florida - no more black powder events! But time and tide rumbled on, and I fell back into an earlier hobby of building rifles. And eventually found my way to this forum, and another similar one.
The people I've "met" here are some of the greatest sharers of information ever. They give freely of their time and energy to help others, and have inculcated that habit with me.
I shall experiment a bit with the various papers suggested. I do have a bit of an advantage - to get my Biologist's degree, I had to take a lot of Chemistry. And me being me, I learned (actually taught myself) to make nitrocellulose or gun cotton, as well as various other rather flammable concoctions. It would be easy to make nitrated paper, for example. But - having gotten a modicum of common sense over my 76+ years, I do believe I will leave that part to others., and satisfy myself with various "safe" forms of paper. mostly.
I shall try the curling papers, tracing paper, newspaper, bond paper, etc., and find which is a favorite.
Who knows - I may go far with revolvers, and forego my lovely longrifles. NOT! They are sure fun too!
Again, thanks for the info about paper cartridges. Will be fun to make a couple devices to help churn out a nice lot of cartridges!

 

[Joemolf]

What paper is currently used for paper-wrapped cartridges? I have several .44-cal revolvers, and one .36 cal, and would love to experiment a bit with paper cartridges.

I’ve used miilta coffee filters soaked in potassium nitrate check out Mark Hubbs Eras Gone videos they were on YouTube but may have moved to a freer platform; with 100 percent success.

 

[Joemolf]

I’ve used miilta coffee filters soaked in potassium nitrate check out Mark Hubbs Eras Gone videos they were on YouTube but may have moved to a freer platform; with 100 percent success.

I’ve also purchased a few sheets of Nitrate paper from Buffalo Arms but have yet to use it I still have a bunch of nitrated coffee filters

 

[TFoley]

Glad I ran across this thread. I received my .44 Remington repro from my folks in the early 80’s and have been using Crisco in the end of each chamber since. What a mess is right! I usually did what I was told to do when I came to gun safety, but always mentally questioned how on earth the flash could possibly get past that ball fitted so tightly in that chamber. Without a form of lubricant, does it get harder to load the cylinder after a few shots?

On the average guest day, we shoot around 120 shots with a Ruger Old Army. Apart from taking the cylinder out every five or six reloads to wiper off the cylinder arbor and regrease it, and have general wipe-over with some kind of a wet-wipe, that's all the attention it gets all day long. And you're right, the flash does not somehow sneak forwards around the tightly-sealed ball, make a 180 degree turn and somehow get into the rear of the adjacent chamber.

 

[TFoley]

Disagree heartily. I have known shooters who were taught no wad or grease was necessary. They continued with this practice until, one day, a chain fire woke them up. In this game we are (or should be) constantly learning and evolving with our loading techniques. All within the bounds of safety.....I hope.

Please show me the part of the Colt instructions pasted inside the box where it tells the shooter to use either over-powder wads or some kind of gloop over the chamber mouth.

 

[Red Owl]

Well Wildcat it sounds like you are pretty interested in the subject so I'll add a little more. There are two types of paper cartridges, regular and combustible. The regular cartridges in the Civil War were used for muskets. You tore open the end of the cartridge (needed good teeth) and poured the powder down the barrel, removed the Minnie bullet, crumbled up the paper and used that as a wad followed by the bullet. The combustibles were used for revolvers (They did make a few for muskets but not common) Some folks think you need to tear open a combustible. If properly made, not true- just load it as is. The issue is making the combustible. Colt, on his original patent had a little tab in circular form. The paper was rolled into an open tube and then this "trapdoor" was folded over and glued, so that there was only a single layer of paper in the back of the cartridge. The percussion cap is powerful enough to rupture this and explode the round.
Problems began when some folks just crunched up the cartridge in the base area and now the percussion cap had to blow through a bunch of wadded up paper. Since it was combustible, the paper might burn through but there would be a hang fire.
In any event, get a wood dowel and taper it a little. Draw a line around it where the top of the cartridge will go. Make a pattern for the paper. I used heavy cardboard. You want an isosceles trapezoid with the wide base on top and the gummed edge of cigarette paper on top and against the dowel- so when rolled, the glue is inside. On the short base, in the middle- make a "trapdoor" Square is okay. Now roll the paper around the dowel and secure with a glue stick. Fold over the trap door and use the glue stick. You now have a paper case. Put in the powder and then the conical and lick the top of the paper, the moisture will go through the paper and activate the glue- gluing the paper case to the bullet. All is very delicate at this point so set aside and let dry. Keep the cases in a small container like an Altoids tin and add tissue paper to prevent the delicate cases from rolling around.
If you really like this, make a wood box (on the interest). You can even copy the label and print on tan paper and put the label on the box. Colt had a 2 piece box and the label acted as a hinge, the ripcord tore open 3/4's of the label leaving one side with a hinge label. D. C. Sage used a mono block with holes in one end and the label over the holes- the ripcord (which goes under the label before being glued to the box), opened the end and exposed the cartridges. Millions upon millions of this ammunition was sold to the Army during the War. To my knowledge, it was the standard ammunition for revolvers.

BTW- been on the Constellation- great ship. Really liked the inner harbor.

 

[nkbj]

Based upon tests I did with a 1858 reproduction (a Pietta .36 caliber reworked to shoot bullets from .41 caliber molds) using round ball, round noses, semi-wadcutters, flat round noses and wadcutters the results were exactly what everybody would expect. SWC's penetrated real good like they are designed to. Flat nosed wadcutters went KERSPLAT! and penetrated least (half as much).

With a Pietta .44 caliber 1858 SWC's and round ball were so close in penetration as to make no difference. And that gave me something fun to ponder. Sure the round ball was going a lot faster but the SWC using less powder went in just as far. But that doesn't say doodly about the violence with which the two projectiles shoved aside the target medium.

 

[Columbus]

Disagree heartily. I have known shooters who were taught no wad or grease was necessary. They continued with this practice until, one day, a chain fire woke them up. In this game we are (or should be) constantly learning and evolving with our loading techniques. All within the bounds of safety.....I hope.

Are these instructions valid?

 

[Zulch]

Are these instructions valid?

View attachment 130134

Columbus, Thank you for posting sir. I tried to enlarge this photo but cannot quite read this. Z

 

[M. De Land]

Keep it out of the rain…

Yeah, this is where the flap holsters really earn their keep.

 

[TFoley]

Clearly states 'without wadding or patch'. Or gloop.


YMMV.

 

[nkbj]

That's why I use LOOB, because gloop will ruin your revolver.

 

[Robby]

View attachment 130203

Clearly states 'without wadding or patch'. Or gloop


YMMV.

That is pretty cool! Is is something that came with a Colt revolver back in the day? either way, pretty cool.
Robby

 

[Joemolf]

Check out Eras Gone using a Clif Manely mandrel which I have in 36 and 44 before he past. Mark s video is excellent knock offs can be purchased elsewhere fun stuff never had one that did go Big Bang

Correction should say one that did not go bang! Damn Long COVID!
By the way kind of obvious you don’t have to wrap them in paper. Just know that they require a slightly lighter load then a round ball. Last batch of concials I made I dipped them in Alox they are a sweet little bullet