Hi every one, first post so go easy! I have on its way to New Zealand a Pedersoli missouri river hawken, 50cal. I intend to shoot Hornady 385gn GPB. We dont have a big choise over here but, I can get Alliant bp mz, Holy Smoke, Schuetzen ffg and fffg, Hodgdon 777. This is my first smoke pole, Ive had to give up bow hunting after 40 years due to spine injury. Can some one give me some loads that they have found to work using any of the above combinations. It will be used for hunting, Fallow and Red stag mainly, maybe Sika. Thank you in advance, This looks like a great social forum. Greg.
-
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
Loads for 50cal please
- Thread starter extrema
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
galamb
58 Cal.
I would go with the Schuetzen FF and start at about 70 grains, then move up in 5 grain increments. Watch for your group to get tighter at whatever charge rate, then start opening up again.
Keep going until 1) you reach the max load (110 grains according to Pedersoli) or 2) you find your accurate load or 3) until your shoulder can't take it anymore and you start flinching.
A 385 grain Great Plains is an awfully heavy bullet for a 50 cal and she will start kicking pretty hard before you add too many grains of powder.
If you can find any, based on the game you mention, AND you don't want to shoot roundball (which would be enough), you can try out some Pennsylvania Conicals (PA Conicals) from Hornady.
They come in at 240 grains, don't need a patch and are a kinda half ball, half conical - deadly on thin skinned game.
Keep going until 1) you reach the max load (110 grains according to Pedersoli) or 2) you find your accurate load or 3) until your shoulder can't take it anymore and you start flinching.
A 385 grain Great Plains is an awfully heavy bullet for a 50 cal and she will start kicking pretty hard before you add too many grains of powder.
If you can find any, based on the game you mention, AND you don't want to shoot roundball (which would be enough), you can try out some Pennsylvania Conicals (PA Conicals) from Hornady.
They come in at 240 grains, don't need a patch and are a kinda half ball, half conical - deadly on thin skinned game.
Thank you for your reply, the missouri river is a 1-24 twist so I thought RB was out. Very hard to get much in New Zealand. The GP con was all I can get hold of at the moment, so will try and get some thing shooting well with that. Our roar starts here in about 3 weeks, some of the red stags can get pretty big. Over 200kg and the bush is realy thick, shots will be 60m max but more than likely much much closer.The red stags tend to come in looking for a fight and things can get dodgy real quick :shocked2: Thanks, Greg.
My pop hit a buffalo with one of those (58 cal tho) and I have hit elk weight 700 lbs with the .50 before I got a few .54 and .58. They will be all you'll need! As far a RB....some say you can shoot em but with more or less powder? Other will chime in. I would certainly try em though....ya never know :idunno:
Welcome to the forum. 
Your .50 cal rifle shouldn't have a problem with the Red Stags.
The .50's have been used to take American Elk and the males can weigh 320 to 331 kg (705 to 730 lb).
As galamb mentioned, you should buy some extra bullets so you can give your gun a good testing at different powder loads.
Also, if you can find any, trying a different bullet is worth while.
Each gun is different and each will have one type of bullet that works better than the others.
Finding the one that works best is a worthwhile task.
These guns usually have two different loads which work well with the other loads giving poorer accuracy.
Real black powder is (IMO) always better than the synthetic powders.
It's ignition point is lower and it is much less likely to mis-fire.
It does leave fouling in the bore and after a few shots the fouling may make loading slugs very difficult.
For that reason, having a few damp cleaning patches and a cleaning jag for the ramrod is useful.
When wiping the bore with these do not pump them up and down the bore.
Run the damp patch down the bore. Let it sit there for a few seconds so the fouling above it has time to soften from the moisture. Then, remove it in one smooth pull.
Doing this will prevent the process from knocking fouling off of the bore and blowing it back into the flame channel.
When your actually hunting and you have loaded your rifle it is a good idea to remove the nipple (cone) and dribble a few grains of powder under it. Then, replace the nipple and your ready for the hunt.
This little bit of added powder will easily ignite when the cap fires and the flame it adds to the caps flame going down the flame channel will insure an almost instantaneous ignition.
Your .50 cal rifle shouldn't have a problem with the Red Stags.
The .50's have been used to take American Elk and the males can weigh 320 to 331 kg (705 to 730 lb).
As galamb mentioned, you should buy some extra bullets so you can give your gun a good testing at different powder loads.
Also, if you can find any, trying a different bullet is worth while.
Each gun is different and each will have one type of bullet that works better than the others.
Finding the one that works best is a worthwhile task.
These guns usually have two different loads which work well with the other loads giving poorer accuracy.
Real black powder is (IMO) always better than the synthetic powders.
It's ignition point is lower and it is much less likely to mis-fire.
It does leave fouling in the bore and after a few shots the fouling may make loading slugs very difficult.
For that reason, having a few damp cleaning patches and a cleaning jag for the ramrod is useful.
When wiping the bore with these do not pump them up and down the bore.
Run the damp patch down the bore. Let it sit there for a few seconds so the fouling above it has time to soften from the moisture. Then, remove it in one smooth pull.
Doing this will prevent the process from knocking fouling off of the bore and blowing it back into the flame channel.
When your actually hunting and you have loaded your rifle it is a good idea to remove the nipple (cone) and dribble a few grains of powder under it. Then, replace the nipple and your ready for the hunt.
This little bit of added powder will easily ignite when the cap fires and the flame it adds to the caps flame going down the flame channel will insure an almost instantaneous ignition.
Idaho Ron
58 Cal.
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2007
- Messages
- 2,729
- Reaction score
- 1,227
GregMit said:
With that fast of a twist I am going to recommend a bullet that works great in my guns. I paper Patch the Lee C-501-440-RF bullet. It is a 500 S&W bullet that I cast wrap with two wraps of 9# onion skin and size dry to .501 they are tight in my Green Mountain barrels and shoot awesome.
Thank you for that option but, I would have to import the mold from US. Very hard to find any thing in NZ. The only bullet I can get at all is the 385gn GPB, and there was only 60 of those in the country. Has any one had any luck shooting a patched RB out of a 1-24 twist? Thanks, Greg
The fast twist barrels can shoot patched round balls but it usually only works with light powder charges.
The reason for this is not the fast twist. It is because the rifling groove depth on the fast twist barrels is very shallow.
Bare lead bullets expand in diameter a little bit when they are fired.
This allows a slightly under barrel bore diameter slug to be loaded and it will still expand enough to seal the bore and the shallow rifling grooves when it is fired.
Unfortunately, the shallow grooves don't provide enough grip for the cotton patch used to seal the roundball in the bore.
With light powder charges this isn't much of an issue but with a hunting load the cloth patch will end up being destroyed and accuracy goes out the window.
Because this is a Traditional Forum discussing other options here is against the forum rules but there are some modern 2 piece things on the market that sometimes works well in shallow groove fast twist rifles.
They may be available in NZ or in OZ.
The reason for this is not the fast twist. It is because the rifling groove depth on the fast twist barrels is very shallow.
Bare lead bullets expand in diameter a little bit when they are fired.
This allows a slightly under barrel bore diameter slug to be loaded and it will still expand enough to seal the bore and the shallow rifling grooves when it is fired.
Unfortunately, the shallow grooves don't provide enough grip for the cotton patch used to seal the roundball in the bore.
With light powder charges this isn't much of an issue but with a hunting load the cloth patch will end up being destroyed and accuracy goes out the window.
Because this is a Traditional Forum discussing other options here is against the forum rules but there are some modern 2 piece things on the market that sometimes works well in shallow groove fast twist rifles.
They may be available in NZ or in OZ.
You could try a patched RB, but I would make sure it was a tight fit in order to grip the rifling the best it can.
+1, if your rifling is 1/48 or slower it will shoot ball as small as you can hold. American elk and red deer about the same animal and will go down from a well placed ball. It might be manly to be kicked by a mule each time you shoot, but I'll be wimpy. My .50 takes 60-70 grains 3 f or 2 f and ball shoots well.
galamb
58 Cal.
GregMit said:
If you are going to have to "order in" a few projectiles to try you might want to get a pack or two of Hornady "HardBalls".
These are a Round Ball but they are seated in a small cup, like a shot cup.
They made these specifically for fast twist barrels to be used in areas where they have to shoot a round ball because of the hunting regulations.
So that is a perfectly viable option - no patch, the cup engages the rifling (I won't call it a Sabot because we don't discuss those things here) and since the ball isn't "patched" it doesn't care that it's spinning twice as fast as what it might otherwise spin in a slower twist barrel.
Here's a link so you can see what they look like.
(Hornady Hard Ball)
What ever good powder you chose will work in a cap gun. (guessing) You said close range I believe I would sight it in and worry about the best load later on. You said 3 weeks till the Roar. Around here that changes a lot from year to year. I would guess 70-80 grs 2f or 3f would shoot plenty well till you have time to sort the bullet choice out. Good luck.
Larry
You said close range I believe I would sight it in and worry about the best load later on. You said 3 weeks till the Roar. Around here that changes a lot from year to year. I would guess 70-80 grs 2f or 3f would shoot plenty well till you have time to sort the bullet choice out. Good luck. Larry
smoothshooter
50 Cal.
Assuming you can get lead in New Zealand, get yourself a couple of bullet molds, and you can make as many as you want. And save some money too
Thank you to every one for your help.Being my first muzzle loader and only knowing what people like you have been willing to share with me,has been a big help.Being sorta down the bottom of the world, it takes a long time to get rifles ordered and brought in.I just hope Pedersoli get it to me in time for our roar. If not I am looking forward to the journey, that I no will last me many years and will be able to put to use the info that you have all been willing to share. :bow: Thanks Greg.
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2015
- Messages
- 3,065
- Reaction score
- 1,039
Greg, First off, Welcome to the forum my friend! I think you have made a great choice in getting a Pedersoli, Missouri River Hawken. Pedersoli makes a fine rifle! I am sure you will be very pleased and it will be well worth your wait for it to come in.GregMit said:
Like everyone has mentioned, you will have to work up your load combination for that specific rifle. Every rifle is different and has their own personality. Once you find it, you will be dead on accurate with it!
I hope the very best for you and wish you the greatest success. Welcome to the world of traditional muzzleloaders and BP shooting. Keep us informed on how you are coming along. We look forward to hearing from you in the near future. Respectfully, Cowboy :hatsoff:
I loved shooting guns and started young. Shot my first ml at 16, been hooked. Just don't find suppository guns fun, the ones I own our self defense only. Your on your way to an addiction. A year from now if you prick your skin you'll bless black. :wink:
GregMit
Welcome. I would like to add that you might consider using a wad between the powder and bullet. I know that Hornady lubricates the Great Plains bullets but a lubed felt wad under the bullet also helps in sealing the bore and possibly reducing the chance of lead deposits in the barrel. A .50 barrel would take a .510 diameter wad or there abouts. You could punch out your own or maybe find some factory made ones in NZ?
Also My brother in law had a Bobby Hoyt barrel made for his Hawken in .50 caliber with a 1 in 24 twist to shoot what you are considering. The gun smith tested it with .495 round lead ball and .015 lubed patch and 60 grains of FFG KIK black powder. He said it was a tack driver at 25 yards and in his opinion capable of taking our whitetail deer to at least 50 yds. This barrel has deep grooves even though it is a fast twist (bullet) barrel.
Wads: https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/174/1
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/172/1
Best of Luck!
Welcome. I would like to add that you might consider using a wad between the powder and bullet. I know that Hornady lubricates the Great Plains bullets but a lubed felt wad under the bullet also helps in sealing the bore and possibly reducing the chance of lead deposits in the barrel. A .50 barrel would take a .510 diameter wad or there abouts. You could punch out your own or maybe find some factory made ones in NZ?
Also My brother in law had a Bobby Hoyt barrel made for his Hawken in .50 caliber with a 1 in 24 twist to shoot what you are considering. The gun smith tested it with .495 round lead ball and .015 lubed patch and 60 grains of FFG KIK black powder. He said it was a tack driver at 25 yards and in his opinion capable of taking our whitetail deer to at least 50 yds. This barrel has deep grooves even though it is a fast twist (bullet) barrel.
Wads: https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/174/1
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/172/1
Best of Luck!
Last edited by a moderator:
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
FOR SALE very nice Veteran Arms 1st Land Pattern Brown Bess for sale!- Latest: FlintlockMilitaryRifle
-
