Lock tuning

[Coinneach]

It doesn't work. He doesn't com up as a member

I found it here, Flintlocks: How to Shoot Them

Great information and advice, really worth cutting and pasting to a Doc file on your hard drive.

 

[Coinneach]

Jim Chambers talks flintlocks

Barring a major functioning problem with the lock, tuning just means to polish or stone all the rubbing/contact point surfaces to a slick finish. If the lock feels gritty after greasing, then it needs polishing. If it functions without grinding anywhere, polishing is probably not needed, but doing it helps with knowing how things work and fit.
Most of the new locks are assembled to a working state(some better than others), but the casting finish isn't always cleaned up on the tumbler and frizzen rotating/contact surfaces. Chambers has 4 or 5 assemblers who do the different locks, and another fellow who grinds the cast springs for them. All are paid by the lock or piece. Jim's locks are cleaner than most and don't need much work.
There is more to tuning like strike angle and frizzen opening angle, but they are more of an eyeball type of work.

I've always tuned my Flint locks using a small flat file wrapped in descending grades of fine grit paper, I start with the inside of the Lock plate (disassembled) , and then the Main spring inner edge (that lies against the Lock plate), taking just enough off so it doesnt rub the inside of the Lock plate. Then lightly polish (all by hand) the inner surface of the Tumbler (again that rubs on the Lock plate) before other parts. I leave the Frizzen mounting until last and go real careful with it. The key is to focus on a minimal removal of everything and a final polish of all wearing surfaces as practicable.

 

[Robby]

A fellow gave me this book recently and I haven't had a chance to get into it, but a quick scan tells me their is quite a bit of in-depth study here, mostly French I think.

Robby

 

[dave_person]

Hi Robby,
Lenk's book, which was an expansion of his PhD. thesis is the definitive work on the history of the flintlock mechanism and the decorative styles found on them during the 17th-19th centuries. It focuses a lot on French designs because they invented the true flintlock and published most of the design plates used by others to decorate their firearms.

dave

 

[waksupi]

Jim Chambers talks flintlocks

I still end up with a couple hours on Chambers locks. Get a good magnifier, and check the engagement surfaces on the sear and tumbler to start.

 

[HighUintas]

For polishing all surfaces on a lock, how about 1200-1800grit wet dry paper wrapped on files?

 

[dave_person]

Hi HU,
That fine grit will take you a long time to get rid of the casting texture and major tool marks. It would be fine for final polish. I usually start with 80 grit paper and coarse stones to get rid of the cast surface and tool marks and then gradually progress to finer paper and stones. When using paper, I always wet sand by dipping the paper in water. You will find the paper cutting faster and longer that way (if it is made for wet use). When I get to final polish on bearing surfaces, I use Arkansas stones dipped in paraffin oil. The sharp corners and flat surfaces of those stones keep the polishing precise.

dave

 

[HighUintas]

Hi HU,
That fine grit will take you a long time to get rid of the casting texture and major tool marks. It would be fine for final polish. I usually start with 80 grit paper and coarse stones to get rid of the cast surface and tool marks and then gradually progress to finer paper and stones. When using paper, I always wet sand by dipping the paper in water. You will find the paper cutting faster and longer that way (if it is made for wet use). When I get to final polish on bearing surfaces, I use Arkansas stones dipped in paraffin oil. The sharp corners and flat surfaces of those stones keep the polishing precise.

dave

Thanks, Dave. I've done some searching around and couldn't find much information on stones vs paper with a backer, or a good source for stones. Is the only difference the precision?

I have no stones other than a couple for chisels. Would the polishing stones that McMaster Carr carries be suitable or would you recommend a different source?

 

[Nor'Easter]

A fellow gave me this book recently and I haven't had a chance to get into it, but a quick scan tells me their is quite a bit of in-depth study here, mostly French I think.
View attachment 117033
Robby

That was a pretty nice gift! I bought my copy late last year, the same day I ordered Mr. Hoff's "Dutch Firearms". Put a noticable dent in my play money for the month.

 

[SOLANCO]

Wow.

Simply Wow.

I had no possible idea it would be that involved. I'm going to contact Chambers on Monday and see what the dimensions are on their round faced English Lock. The stock in my Pedersoli kit is already inlet for their lock. If the plate will fit I'm going that route. This type of smithing is well beyond my skills. Even to only do a fraction of what you did to that lock is well beyond what I'm ready to attempt at this point. This gun is primarily going to be a wall hanger. I'll shoot it to say that I have. But, it's not going to see the amount of use that my other guns do.

 

[SOLANCO]

I don't know if anything actually "wrong" with my Bess Lock. It's still in the sealed bag from the factory.

IF you find the lock to be a problem I would urge you to send it to the Emigs at Cabin Creek Muzzle Loading in Hallam, PA. They are to lock tuning like the Japanese are to sword making.
I don't know where you are in SE PA. Hallam is in York County not far from the Susquehanna.

 

[waksupi]

Hi,
Here is a link showing what I did to prepare and tune a lock that needed a lot of work like products from L&R, Davis, M&G, and Pedersoli. It shows a worse case scenario. Really good locks like Chambers, Caywood, Hollenbaugh, Kibler, and Laubach don't require much or any tuning work. Chambers locks usually just benefit from polishing the inside of the plate and any bearing surfaces on the tumbler, sear, bridle, and frizzen. The top of the frizzen spring is always worth polishing highly where the toe of the frizzen rubs against it. I always polish off any grainy texture from the casting process including casting seams inside and out on a lock regardless of maker. Leaving that cast finish is evidence of lazy or rushed work in my opinion. The thread below shows what I did to bring an L&R Queen Anne lock up to an acceptable standard for me. Portions of what I did may be all that is necessary with your lock.

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=60628.msg610320#msg610320
Keep in mind, some commercial locks can be really terrible. I just finished fixing two Pedersoli locks, a Lott and a Bess, that were nightmares of shoddy work. On the Bess I had to add a bronze bushing to the tumbler hole and drill it straight to correct a tumbler installed at an angle. They drilled a grossly oversized hole in the bridle so the angled tumbler would still fit in the hole. I had to fill that hole with welded steel and redrill it. On the Lott, the gap between the pan and frizzen was enough to spill out priming, the sear was mangling the lip of the half cock notch with every shot such that the lock no longer held at half cock, and worse, the sear bar dropped below the edge of the lock plate when in half cock and full. You cannot install a lock like that and have it work safely, yet some hack did and sold it. Tuning a lock really depends on the lock because manufacturing quality varies a lot by maker. I rarely work on other peoples lock's anymore except in special cases because that work is often so frustrating and I can never charge what I should to recoup my time. The lock in the thread above cost $170 but add to that at least $150 worth of work to bring it up to a standard just equal to a Chambers lock right out of the box, and then another $150 or so to make it into what I did. The Chambers lock at $200 is the real bargain.

dave

I still end up with a couple hours on a Chambers lock bringing them to their full potential. Kibler took the least handwork for final tuning.

 

[Rifleman1776]

There are some video's on Youtube, on Flintlock lock tuning, that will show you what to do.

Utube ain't gospel. Interesting at times but I avoid for advice.

 

[frankie]

I tried to do a search on here to gain some knowledge on lock tuning. I see a million posts saying that it s/b done. But, I didn't see a good one w/examples and pictures. Is there an easy way to search that my technologically challenged self doesn't understand? Or better yet, can someone pont me at a specific video or thread that shows what s/b done to make them work better?

check youtube

 

[Jim Evans]

Utube ain't gospel. Interesting at times but I avoid for advice.

This Forum isn't gospel either , YouTube will give you some better insight.

 

[Nor'Easter]

I try to start with a solid - like Dave Person's walk thru. I then compare it to other people's techniques, then decide what I'm willing to do. Some people forget that part of learning is sometimes you make mistakes. Good thing about m/l locks is most parts are still available or can be made, so mistakes are not an end of the world type event.

 

[oldwood]

The above polishing sticks are available Red Hill Corp. , Gettysburg , Pa.. Think they have most every kind of sanding item there is.

 

[Nor'Easter]

The above polishing sticks are available Red Hill Corp. , Gettysburg , Pa.. Think they have most every kind of sanding item there is.

Thanks, that is good to know.

 

[waksupi]

These are what I use to smooth up locks, or similar sharpeners. They are the easiest and best tool I have found to maintain the proper angles.

https://www.amazon.com/EZE-LAP-PAK4...ords=diamond+sharpener&qid=1646668645&sr=8-12

 

[Artificer]

Thanks, Dave. I've done some searching around and couldn't find much information on stones vs paper with a backer, or a good source for stones. Is the only difference the precision?

I have no stones other than a couple for chisels. Would the polishing stones that McMaster Carr carries be suitable or would you recommend a different source?

Hi HU,

First on stones, IF you have a local machinist or industrial supply store, it may be cheaper to buy stones there even though the list cost is usually a bit higher than ordering them. However, shipping costs can make them way more expensive unless you order a bunch of stuff at a time.

Stones give you a much, MUCH flatter and precision surface in many small areas of lock parts, where that is super important.

I looked up the McMaster Carr stones and I could not find THE stone that I consider essential to polishing the faces of sears and full cock notches. That stone is a 4" length, 1/4" three square or triangular Hard Arkansas stone (also small stones are sometimes called files). The triangular shape and size is perfect for the full cock notch. DON'T waste your money on the 6 inch length stone in the following link, though. Using this stone with oil to do just a few strokes on the surfaces mentioned will bring surprisingly good results on locks used without set triggers.

Triangle Arkansas File (sharpeningsupplies.com)

I haven't used the company from the link before and this one following, though I find the FINE grade stone in this link interesting if you have to cut metal, say an especially rough or gouged full cock notch.
Aluminum Oxide 4" x 1/4" Triangle File (sharpeningsupplies.com)

I normally buy Norton India (aluminum oxide) stones in Fine and sometimes medium, depending on what I'm dealing with for gun work.

The following article is excellent for information on oiling and especially FLATENNING stones, which you will have to do from time to time, especially on aluminum oxide, Norton India Stones that are used often on hardened surfaces.
Oilstone | Flattening | Cleaning | How To | Woodworker's Journal | Ernie Conover (woodworkersjournal.com)

Gus