long range smoothbore shooting

[Stumpkiller]

Were there to remain some powder fragments in the pipe bowl, a smoker might be in for quite a surprise when he went to light up his smoke!

I can't imagine it would do much for the flavor, either.

Though I have smoked some "drug store" pipe tobacco a little sulfur and nitrate might have improved.

 

[nhmoose]

One out of how many. He was a good start however.

Well, we certainly aren't 100% ethical today. One out of how many is still an appropriate question.

Page's statement carries a lot of weight with me because he was speaking in a time when there were essentially no game laws. Ethics only under the force if law doesn't deserve a lot of credit.

Spence

Well stated! Thanks :thumbsup:

 

[azmntman]

As for wounding game....I am betting those ol timers could track about anything they hit. I shot a trotting deer at 180 yards ( :redface: never again) and gut shot him. Thankfully I was with a real true down to earth Hill Billy (from good ol KY) who on hands n knees tracked said wounded buck 4.9 miles (as the crow flies and per P/C :grin: GPS) and I recovered him. Now I wonder how this mans great great great granpappy would do? Ol timers KNEW stuff! :shocked2:

 

[George]

Ol timers KNEW stuff! :

And I think it's a mistake if we forget that when trying to learn about their world. There have been many, many times that i have read something they described and said to myself "that can't be right, that won't work", but when I tested it out, it happened just as they said.

Spence

 

[Rockthrower]

By today's standards on light upland birds, we're looking for 3 pellets in the body for a lethal dose--in the body--not in the wings.

Yes, today we do see upland loads of 2 ounces for Turkeys, no less.

Actually, on Gambel's quail, I have often loaded 2 ounces of shot for dense patterns in brushy country in which the quail will put a whale of a lot of brush between you and them when they flush.

I know, 2 ounces seems like overkill, but there's nothing like OVERKILL.

Some of these boys with flintlocks, which were usually charged with loads the percussion folk thought a bit on the magnum side, were waterfowling and 50-60-70 yard shots were not uncommon, and yes, you had a retriever by your side

 

[Wes/Tex]

That's an interesting original post. Try as I might, I can't find a definition for a "pipe" as a measuring unit. Now you made me have to do some serious hunting for that fact. It's a shame that we lose specific definitions over time. Got to believe it's a unit different than we think of as a pipe bowl.

 

[azmntman]

I think a pipe bowl. MOST had em. most likely same size. I bet many had a spare somewhere too? What else "pipelike" was common to carry :hmm:

 

[Grenadier1758]

I'm thinking pipe bowl too. There were bosun's pipes which bear a slight resemblance to a powder measure. But when powder measures were used as signal whistles, the documentation is that they were blowing on their chargers, not on their pipes. Then again, our adjustable brass powder measures are small pipes.

I still think pipe bowl.

 

[Artificer]

In a time period before precision measuring instruments, pipe bowls were something that were uncommonly extremely uniform. This because they were so easy to break, that molds were made to produce them in quantity. Thus, the pipe bowls of each maker would have been very uniform and if you broke one you had used for a powder charge, it was not difficult to find another that would have held almost the same quantity of powder.

I don't know if the old story about breaking off a piece of the stems of long tavern pipes was something commonly done by those who used them when they bought a "pipe of tobacco" in a tavern. But an intact pipe bowl from a pipe with a broken stem or shortened stem could have been a uniform measure for powder.

Gus

 

[Docgp]

But an intact pipe bowl from a pipe with a broken stem or shortened stem could have been a uniform measure for powder.

Gus

I was thinking that also. There must have been many broken stems. Would be another use for a bowl.

Doc

 

[Capt. Jas.]

But an intact pipe bowl from a pipe with a broken stem or shortened stem could have been a uniform measure for powder.

Gus

I was thinking that also. There must have been many broken stems. Would be another use for a bowl.

Doc

Well documented

 

[George]

In a recent thread I measured how much 2F powder four different replica 18th-century pipes would hold. Three were very consistent, even though the style of pipe was quite different.

long stemmed tavern pipe = 108 gr.
indian head = 101 gr.
grooved design = 106 gr.
a much smaller, short-stemmed pipe = 90 gr.

Those amounts are fit right in with the few actual charges I've seen recorded in the old literature, and they aren't out of line for some of us today.

I see no reason to read anything into their statement that they used pipes other than that they used smoking pipes.

Spence

 

[Zonie]

OMG !!!!

Not only can a pipe be used to burn that treacherous week, tobacco but now we find it can be used to measure explosives for guns!

I knew they were the tools of the devil. :shocked2:

:stir:

 

[George]

I decided to fire my smoothbore I had left fouled and uncleaned for more than a month, tonight, but I took advantage of that one shot to try a couple of other casual experiments.

The gun is a Jackie Brown smooth rifle, DOM barrel 46" long, cylinder bore, 20 gauge.

i was interested to see what results I would get if I tested my gun the way George Edie suggested. Since my gun is definitely a second tier type, I decided to shoot at 50 yards instead of the 70, or even 55-60 he recommended. I didn't know what size card he used in his test, so I used half a sheet of typing paper, 8.5" x 5.5", not that much bigger than a squirrel. I was pleased to see 7 good hits on the paper. Dead squirrel at 50 yards with a cylinder bore will always please me.

The second little test was of Skychief's Special load, which I had been wanting to try at longer distance. My gun was loaded with my squirrel version of his load, 60 gr. 2F, a 1/8" hard card, 1 ounce of #5 shot, a thin OS card and topped with a 1/2" fiber cushion wad saturated with olive oil to a weight of 35 grains, which he says is important. My half-sheet of typing paper target was taped on a piece of cardboard 32" wide and 46" long. In addition to the 7 hits in the paper, there were 162 other hits on the cardboard, pretty evenly distributed over the top half of the cardboard. All 169 pellets hit within a square 32" x 36".

That was a confusing result. I was shooting #5 shot, and there are supposed to be only 170 pellets in an ounce. Surely the entire shot load didn't hit in that less-than-three feet square? I had the thought that my stash of #5 shot has accidentally had some smaller shot mixed in with it a couple of times, so there must have been a lot more than 170 pellets in my load. I weighed out an ounce from my stash, counted and got 180 pellets.

Really good, positive results are sometimes harder to believe than bad ones. But, I was there, that's a fair result. My cylinder bore 20 gauge with a version of Skychief's special load put almost the entire 1 ounce shot charge in a 3-foot square at 50 yards.

Kudos, Skychief. I think I now have a better idea why that squirrel I shot with your load last time out was so shot to pieces at 25 yards. From now on I'm going to use my double flinter for squirrels, load one barrel in my regular way for the close shots, save the other, loaded with your special, for the long shots. Sounds like a good combination, to me. :haha:

Spence

 

[Wes/Tex]

Interesting, very interesting pattern testing.

I find my guess of a measure other than a pipe bowl may need some serious rethinking...never been afraid to admit I'm full of bean air or stop and ask directions! :wink: :haha:

I've also got an old Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets from the 50's that has a long pictured section on the history of muzzle loading and eventually cased ammunition. Some interesting illustrations of items including an Eley's 'basket for holding shot together'. Appears to be a small, bore-sized container with buffered shot held together with very thin, twisted wire. The comment under this says, "This devise was designed to hold the shot together in a wire basket for the first 50-60 yards if it's flight, then release it. It's purpose was to produce killing patterns at extremely long ranges." No other details given. I'm seeing a big slug in my mind! :wink: Other ideas included "Shrapnel Spherical Shot Shells" which were two segments filled with shot and held together on a wire spindle with a fiber wad base. This little gem claimed killing ranges of 95 to 140 yards! Color me skeptical!

The standard method according to Lyman was to increase shot size and powder charge weight...fine up to a point. Granted larger, heavier shot kills at a further range but there is a cut-off point unless you're toting a 4 gauge! :haha: Somewhere in all these brilliant ideas the 'law of diminishing returns' is going to rear it's ugly head! :hmm:

 

[Britsmoothy]

Just a thought, did smoking pipe makers offer a line of powder measures?

B.

 

[Skychief]

Spence, thanks for the "Kudos" :thumbsup: .

Talk about great results. :hmm:

Hopefully you will consider sharing this account in a thread of its own. Might get more attention versus buried within this thread. It's a heck of a hunting load which would benefit many here.

Thanks for sharing this with us.

Happy Independence Day, Skychief. atriot: atriot: atriot:

 

[Capt. Jas.]

I'm thinking pipe bowl too. There were bosun's pipes which bear a slight resemblance to a powder measure. But when powder measures were used as signal whistles, the documentation is that they were blowing on their chargers, not on their pipes. Then again, our adjustable brass powder measures are small pipes.

I still think pipe bowl.

For sure pipe bowl. There are even period English paintings showing pipe bowls with shot in hunting images.

 

[George]

That sounds interesting, can you point to one?

Spence

 

[Grandpa Ron]

I seem to recall the max distance for any round ball regardless of caliber is 600 yards.

This would seem reasonable since the effective range of a field cannons is about 1000 yards and they are not shoulder fired.

How far you can fling a ball is not related to where it will hit.