Loyalist Wheel Lock Pistol

[bingo1952]

Looks like ignition is pretty quick to me.

 

[bioprof]

Has anyone thought of trying soft iron? It seems to me that if you annealed soft iron well, it would work about the same as pyrite. As long as the hardened wheel was harder than the iron, it should knock sparks off of the iron and ignite the primer. Iron would be a lot easier to find that pyrite. Anyone tried this?

 

[Teleoceras]

Volatpluvia:

Teleoceras, You surely aren't thinking of paying $16 and shipping, cutting up that jewel and using it in your wheellock. Are you? Desperate times call for desperate actions, huh?

Hey, I like to keep all options open just in case. Now that I am able to shoot Sparky consistently with the right pyrite, I want to find a steady supply.

Slowmatch Forever!
Teleoceras

 

[Leonredbeard]

Bioprof,
It might work, who knows? It should be tried. Will you try it when yours is finished? Interesting idea! I, in more desperate moments, have thought of having a carborundum wheel made and using hardened steel in the jaws of the dog. Like I said, desparate times call for desparate solutions.

Teleoceras,
I surely do understand, I really do.
volatpluvia

 

[Leonredbeard]

AZ Longrifle,
What was the problem that you were going to explain?
volatpluvia

 

[Curt LaManna]

I broke the mainspring, cocking it too far. :cursing:
And the sear was slipping. I have replacement parts on order with Loyalist.

 

[Leonredbeard]

Ouch! yes, over spanning is a problem with a wheellock. Hope you get your parts soon.
volatpluvia

 

[widget350]

I've never put my hands on a wheel lock, but is it possible to incorporate a positive stop to the spanning? Perhaps a lug installed to limit the mainspring travel? Then the only risk of damage would be to the chain if it were over tightened, and it seems like the chain would be easier to repair than a spring.

 

[Zonie]

Has anyone thought of trying soft iron? It seems to me that if you annealed soft iron well, it would work about the same as pyrite. As long as the hardened wheel was harder than the iron, it should knock sparks off of the iron and ignite the primer. Iron would be a lot easier to find that pyrite. Anyone tried this?

According to the Encyclopedia Britannica :

"Iron Pyrites, also known as fool's gold is a naturally occurring iron disulfide...
The name comes from Greek pyr, :fire,: since pyrite emits sparks when struck by steel.
Nodules of pyrite have been found in prehistoric burial mounds, suggesting their use as a primitive mans of producing fire. Wheel-lock guns, in which a spring-driven serrated wheel rotated against a piece of pyrite, were used before development of the flintlock..."

If one stops to think about it striking a piece of soft iron or steel with a piece of hardened steel only produces small shreds of soft iron or steel.

I would suspect that using some other form of rock might work if the wheel was hardened but it would cause a lot of wear on the wheel.

 

[Tinker2]

I had some small pieces of pyrite. I put one in my flint lock, used it like a flint, it worked fine. I have to start to rethink what I thought I knew.

It works [pyrite] on my smooth frizzen.
Am I the only one that has tried that?



Tinker2

 

[widget350]

As long as the impact is sufficient to break off a piece, it'll spark. In a wheellock, the impact is minimal so the scraping of the wheel on the pyrite has to remove a sliver to create the spark, so geometry of the wheel and pyrite is probably more of a factor there than in the flintlock. I'd guess that depending on the hardness of the wheel, a number of different combinations of surfaces between the pyrite and the wheel would work well (i.e. smooth wheel with sharp pyrite vs. grooved wheel with smooth pyrite vs. rough wheel with rough pyrite, etc.)...but that's just conjecture.

 

[Leonredbeard]

Widgit,
It is easy to both hear and feel the sear nose drop into the depression on the inside of the wheel under spring pressure. So IMHP a stop is not required.
Also, I know from watching my wheellock in slow motion that the wheel goes beyond its resting position when spun under pressure of the mainspring and then returns to its resting position. A stop could break something.
volatpluvia

 

[widget350]

Fair enough! As I said, though I'm fascinated by wheellocks, I've never actually handled one, so I'll take your word for it. I've heard of numerous tales of people over spanning them, so I was devising a solution to a problem I thought was there.

 

[Karl Helweg]

I had all sorts of trouble just getting a spark even though I had tested it indoors. The cock was so tight that the pyrite missed the wheel and pan by about half a millimeter(?) After much shimming I got it to make contact and fire.

Then I had an epiphany; it was 16F that day. What happens to a steel "C" like the cock, when you freeze it? It contracts which causes it to no longer reach the edge of the pan like it is supposed to.... One of those things that you will not learn out of a history book. Matchlocks would have had an advantage here in a winter battle.

 

[Curt LaManna]

Here's a pic of me shooting at the moment of ignition, but not firing. Mine works well using 3f in the pan and 40gns of 3f for a .595 ball in .010 patch. Now all I need is spare parts to fix it!
Merry Christmas to all!

 

[ChrisPer]

Winter battle? They fought in a 'field season', and most northern european armies sent the guys home for winter so it would not have been such a huge issue. An abundance of food is needed to field an army, and summer would have been better for larks tongues and boars tripes fried in aurochs dripping (with... ? :grin: )

Maybe just an extra fold of glove leather in the cock jaw would fix it anyway. In my reading of materials science, holes behave the same as the enclosing material for thermal contraction, so unless I had a bimetallic dog arm the whole lock should shrink the same within normal temperature ranges.

 

[Karl Helweg]

You have to imagine a straightened out "C" or cock which would be nearly three times as long as the straight line distance to the pan so could contract proportionately more. Because the wheel spins back towards the shooter, the cock holds the pyrite at the far forward edge so it does not take much to cause it to not reach any longer.

I doubt 16th century soldiers got much more than hard cheese, hard tack, hard water, and what ever they could forage. On their two year campaign for the Pope against Barbarossa and the Turks the Landsknechts barely complained about being give only boat loads of already two year old "bread" at the start. I cannot find a recipe but I suspect that it might not exactly have been what I would call "bread."

AZ Longrifle - what is broken on yours? I found an old brass mold marked .570 and I am using a thin patch to get a syringe-like seal with mine that miked to .60. I drilled the tiniest touch hole that I could and fully expected to have to enlarge it but I have not had a flash in the pan yet. Of course I just tempted fate by saying that. :wink: I am also using FFFg in the pan and 30gr seems like a good full charge but my powder is getting old. I might need to dremel out my pan a little, it barely holds FFFg kernels now.

So who here has successfully "napped" pyrite like: http://cgi.ebay.com/30-IRON-PYRITE...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad5b5de46 or the cheap beads for sale on Ebay to a sharp edge?

 

[ChrisPer]

I haven't knapped pyrite yet. I have bought 3 cubes of about 2cm size and they are still cubes! Some other members here have recommended sawing off slabs with a gritted wire type of saw blade, and there are also small and cheap diamond bladed tile cutters which some have found very effective.

 

[Tinker2]

I haven't knapped pyrite yet. I have bought 3 cubes of about 2cm size and they are still cubes! Some other members here have recommended sawing off slabs with a gritted wire type of saw blade, and there are also small and cheap diamond bladed tile cutters which some have found very effective.

On cutting pyrite.
I tried the other types of saw blades, tried knapping it and tried the Dremel tools. None worked very well for me.

I used this. It works well. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=3733
Let us know what works for you.

Tinker2

 

[Curt LaManna]

Save your money for a well made Flintlock or Wheel lock , if you insist on owning one.
The customer service, or lack there of, is astonishing. No call backs when it comes to getting parts and shipping to Canada sucks out loud.
I won't be purchasing anything else form Loyalist Arms. Also, my charge on the damn, cursed thing shipped to AZ was $720!
Bottom line, don't buy Indian made guns, they are crap!