Lube War #1

[Stumpkiller]

I have set myself to the task of duplicating the properties of Natural Lube 1000+. For those of you not familiar with this, it is a patch lube and bullet grease made from "100% natural ingredients" and which allows repeated shooting or patched round balls without the need of wiping fouling between shots. It has some anti-corrosion properties, but is not pushed as a bore protector for longer terms of storage.

I have arrived at a group of ingredients I suspect will produce a workable lube and provide some measure of protection to the metal when used as a coating (AFTER a thorough cleaning with hot, soapy water). My goal is two products. The first will be a grease type lube which can be carried in a metal container with a lid, my preferred means, and a dry patch can be dragged through it to lube it. It should not be runny at room temperature, but must remain useable even at freezing temperatures. This will be the tough one.

The second is a liquid lube that will also be a blackpowder fouling solvent and also have metal protecting properties. I'm hoping this one will go a month between wipes and still protect metal. Since it will be used for clean-up it should be relatively inexpensive. I'm hoping to duplicate Lehigh Valley Lube with this mixture.


THE TEST

Before I go on into arriving at the proper ratio of ingredients, I want to test the components individually to see what effect they have on exposed steel. I am going to make a test board out of 12 gauge cold-rolled steel that will allow me to test lubes under identical conditions. I will have two strips, each mounted on the same plywood board, with eight regions marked out on each strip. Each test region will be 6" high by 4" wide. On each end of each strip will be a 2" control section that will receive no test coating but will be wiped with water whenever the other regions have material applied. These ends will also be where the steel is attached to the backing board using silicon bronze ring-shanked nails (which will not rust themselves - though there will be some galvanic corrosion going on).

Here is my plan for the test:
1.) The steel has a protective oil coating applied by Olympic. I will first mount the strips on the board, wipe them down with acetone. Sand down to fresh steel with a drum sander and then wipe again with acetone.
2.) I will designate the test regions with a line from a "Marks-A-Lot" indelible marker and a number above each region. 1-12 with a "C" over each of the control regions.
3.) Each region will then be wiped with clean tap water (well water - no flouride or chlorination). Test materials will then be rubbed well into the surface of each region and the excess wiped off with a paper towel.
4.) The board will then be hung against the side of my house in a three-sides-open car port that has a roof but a dirt floor.
5.) The next day each region will be inspected for signs of rust.
6.) A powder charge of 20 gr FFFg will be placed on each region (except on two of the four control areas) in turn and ignited. The residue from this will be wiped three times with a dry paper towel, noting if the original coatings had any effect on 'softening' the residue or leaving less after the third wipe. A second charge will be set off in each region. This will be wiped off thoroughly with a paper towel coated with the test media for that region, but the same surface of the paper towel will be down and the fouling will be smeared in. The board will be left alone for four hours.
7.) The regions will then be wiped again with a paper towel containing the test media, followed by a dry towel, and then more test media will be wiped in and given a smooth coating, rubbed clean of excess lube.
8.) Observations will be made daily but no further applications will be made. The trial period will be one month.

THE MATERIALS TO BE TESTED

Lehigh Valley Lube, Natural Lube 1000+, Castor Oil, Mutton Tallow, Olive Oil, My Grease Lube Mix, Witch Hazel, T/C #13 Solvent, WD-40, My Liquid Lube Mix, Murphy's Oil Soap, CLP Breakfree

Here are the proposed first mixes of my Grease and Liquid Lube

Grease Lube
8 oz. beeswax $3.00
3 oz. mutton tallow 0.75
2 oz. castor oil 1.95
2 oz. witch hazel 0.40
1 oz. Murphy's Oil Soap 0.16

16 oz. $6.26
(Compare to Natural Lube 1000+ at $25.57/lb. ($7.99/5 oz.))

Liquid Lube
16 oz. water (non-chlorinated)
8 oz. isopropyl alcohol, 91% $0.50
4 oz. witch hazel 0.80
3 oz. castor oil 2.92
1 oz. Murphy's Oil Soap 0.16

32 oz. (one quart) $4.38
(Compare to Lehigh Valley Lube at $21.76/qt. ($5.44/8 oz.))
(Or compare T/C Number 13 at $14.32/qt. ($3.58/8 oz.))
(Or compare Windex (but w/no rust prevention) at $3.95/qt.)

Note that these are just first mix ratios based on past experience and reading of other folks mixtures. The grease lube will probably need to be amended to get a good consistency. More beeswax to harden it or more tallow to soften it. This test will at least show if the basic ingredients provide the required metal protection. If my natural ingredient lubes pass this test I will move on to the firing tests.

Note also that my above costs are at CVS Drugstore prices for the various oils and alcohol. Castor Oil can be had for 1/4 the price in larger quantities. That alone would bring the cost of the liquid mix to 1/2 that of Windex. Dixie Gun Works is the only supplier of mutton tallow I have found. I would be interested if anyone knows of other sources.

Keep ya' posted.

 

[tg]

Sounds like fun, enjoy...the commercial bore butters are a paraffin based lube which is a petroleum by product, which is natural, as is most anything you use...all things were here...some are just altered from their original form, one cannot "create" matter so 100% natural can mean about anything.

 

[Stumpkiller]

. . . one cannot "create" matter so 100% natural can mean about anything.

Point well taken. I'm hoping to bypass the tars that are formed in burning petroleum based lubes. I added the mutton tallow as a concession to what would have been available to the gunners of the colonies & early frontier. Most of what I have included is ancient technology. I'm making a stretch with castor oil, can't prove it was used in lubes though it was available; but sperm whale oil is hard to come by lately and rendering bear fat is too messy. Castor oil doesn't wax up at low temperatures like all other vegetable oils, and is very heat stable.

I hunted up some soap making history, and the main active ingredient in Murphy's (Vegetable) Oil Soap, potassium hydroxide, is also produced in the saponification of animal fats (like mutton tallow) passed through wood ashes. I avoided Crisco because of the salts it contains. The witch hazel is the interesting thing to me because it does unique things to fatty acids and protein. I'm hoping this will be what was missing from some of my earlier disappointing attempts at a multi-shot grease lube for PRB.

I chose isopropyl alcohol (91%) in the liquid lube/solvent because it is the cheapest (rubbing alcohol has 30% water and other compounds added). Ethyl would have been more "PC", but probably wouldn't evaporate (taking moisture with it) as well.

 

[jtmattison]

stumpkiller,
I have a "bore butter" recipe.
Beeswax
Olive oil
Wintergreen oil (if you like the smell of commercial bore butter) If not, leave it alone and it smells like honey.
Mix in quantities to give you the desired consistency.
From my research bore butter is made of just these ingredients.
I make it a little soft for use on patches and a little harder for lubing conicals.
Works great.
I experimented with many different lubes with crisco, lard, parafin...etc but the beeswax/olive oil is the best.
I don't use it as a protectant, just a bullet/patch lube.
Good luck.

Huntin

 

[roundball]

Ambitious undertaking...

Musketman:
With as much constant time spent on the two major topics of "ML Cleaning" and "ML Lubes", I suggest we set up a separate topic for each

 

[musketman]

Ambitious undertaking...

Musketman:
With as much constant time spent on the two major topics of "ML Cleaning" and "ML Lubes", I suggest we set up a separate topic for each

If you mean in the links section, there are two topics on cleaning a muzzleloader in the Muzzleloading Techniques and Procedures section...

I could gather all of the homemade lube recipies and add them (at a later date), we could call it Member's patch lubes or something like that...

If you want to, e-mail me your favorite formulas and I will link them:

Example...

Stumpkiller's patch lube #1
Stumpkiller's patch lube #2

Zonie's 2% moose milk

ect...

 

way too much time on your hands!

 

[roundball]

Actually I meant as a separate category...like the Flintlock category, the Percussion category, etc

 

[musketman]

Actually I meant as a separate category...like the Flintlock category, the Percussion category, etc

That would be up to Claude, not me...

 

[Zonie]

Zonie's 2% moose milk.........

Speaking of Moose Milk (or at least the home made kind with the watersoluable machining coolent (cutting) oil, the latest edition of MuzzleBlasts has the Bevel Brothers talking about blown patches.

A blown patch is one where the fabric on the powder side of the ball is litterly blown apart. This is not talking about Burned patches, it is talking about patches which end up looking like a donut. They are fine ahead of the ball, and they don't look cut by the rifling but the damage is on the back side of the ball, next to the powder.

Bevel UP and Bevel Down both shoot Chunk Guns so they use heavy powder loads and noticed that when these donut patches occure, the shot Always goes wide of the mark. They talk like it is very aggravating to have your little "group" become a big one because of a 4 inch "flyer". (Just fussy I guess.)

They mentioned a number of causes for these blown patches like wrong material, loose weave, patch/ball combination being too tight and overstressing the material during loading BUT they also mentioned PATCHES WHICH HAD BEEN SOAKED in stuff consisting of, among other things Water Soluable Machineing oil.
It seems that after sitting for a few months with this stuff on them, the material weakens and often blew out when fired!

I am not knocking Moose Milk, or the home made substitutes. I am only giving a warning that the stuff could cause problems with the materail AFTER SOAKING IN THIS TYPE OF SOLUTION FOR A FEW MONTHS. :shocking:

I will also put in a plug for joining the National Muzzleloading Rifle Association. By joining, you will get one of the best magazines in America (yes, both North and South).

 

[AgesofDays]

the NMRA and the NRA are they the same or together? what magazine do you get ?you cant make a statement like that without a few questions ::

 

[Deadeye]

Nope, NMLRA and NRA not the same(you should belong to both). NMLRA magazine is Muzzleblasts, good magazine and another good one is Muzzleloader magazine.

 

[Stumpkiller]

NMLRA. They're independent of the NRA.

http://www.nmlra.org/MemberBenefits.htm

Based on the first batch of my test grease lube I have altered the recipe. It didn't seem 'oily' enough so I increased the castor oil. As hoped, the witch hazel binds it all together well. It is MUCH waxier than Natural Lube (which is too soft for my likes. It's a mess in a loading block or a tin in the shooting pouch). The re-mix with more oil is almost as stiff as pure beeswax, but a cotton patch dragged through it loads up with plenty. The patch then handles almost as unmessely (sp?) as a dry-patch lube. This is a mix that could work in a grease hole in a gun's stock or as a non-messy conical bullet lube based on texture.

As a highly scientific test I suspended a spoon in my coffee cup (hour old coffee in a s/steel Thermos bottle - maybe 140

 

[Zonie]

AgesofDays: Sorry, I forgot to capitalize the L in MuzzleLoader? Anyway, the orginazation is the NMLRA. They are located in Southern Indiana and have been around sense the early 1930's.
The membership cost is $40/year. They currently have 19,120 members.
The Muzzle Blasts magazine is one of the 2 best muzzleloading magazines in the United States. (The other magazine which I rate as tops is MuzzleLoader. It is published every other month, or 6 issues/year).

Muzzle Blasts is a monthly magazine which covers a wide range of topics (just like this forum) ranging from shooting, building, cooking, cloths, hunting, and history, to legislative news (They do not lobby governmental lawmakers like the NRA does) and more.

The NMLRA puts on a number of big shoots, and is the Maker of the Rules when it comes to most Muzzleloading compatitions.

If you can afford it, I would recommend you consider joining.

 

[Ohio Joe]

I'm under the impression that the NMLRA makes a contribution to the NRA each year? I thought I read that in Muzzle Blast (NMLRA's monthly magazine) a few years ago? In any event, both organizations are well worth belonging to. We may not always agree with them on certain issues, but they are there for us in the continuing fight for our Second Amendment Rights! :applause: Without them, Stumpkiller probably wouldn't be working on patch lube, or cleaning formulas... Support both the NMLRA and NRA if you can...

 

[Stumpkiller]

I jumped ahead of myself a bit. I decided it was counterproductive to test lubes that were too stiff fo my needs, so I made up a bunch of small batches and took the best two (texture wise) shooting. They were:

Grease #3
2 oz. beeswax
4 oz. castor oil
1 teaspoon Murphy's Oil Soap

I added the Murphy's Oil because the castor and the beeswax were not mixing well. It helped immediately.

Grease #4
3 oz. beeswax
9 oz. castor oil
1 oz. Murphy's Oil Soap
1 oz. witch hazel

This one is just the consistancy I was looking for. Solid at room temperature but soft enough to adhere easily to a patch dragged through a tin of it. Natural Lube is a mess in a tin on edge in a hunting bag. It leaks oil and is too runny. My actual batches were 1/6th these quantities (I'm using shoe-polish tins to pour the melted mix into to let it cool. 1 oz = 2 tablespoons = 6 teaspoons).

I loaded up a 5 shot block of grease #3 and took a tin of #4 up the hill behind my house to my "test range". I ran a patch lubed with #4 down the barrel and blew off a cap before loading. Grease #3 all loaded easily without wiping between shots and, at 25 yards offhand, all went into a 2" group. This isn't bad considering just before I walked up the hill I had moved an 84" x 32" oak bookshelf into the house by myself because my wife said it was too heavy for her to carry one end of, and I have to walk up a hill to get to my shooting spot. I was out of breath and shaky.

Anyway. The odd thing is the group was 2" high at 25 yard

I wiped the bore once with Moose Milk (made with mineral oil instead of cutting oil). I switched to Grease #4 and fired 10 consecutive shots from 50 yards without wiping. This is using 0.017 patches in a .54 with .53 RLB. That's good for me. I loaded from the muzzle (instead of my usual block) and started with a 1-1/2" stub-sterter and then went right to ramrod. For all shots it only required steady pressure to seat the ball, except for shot #3, which stalled a third of the way down and I had to exert more force, but did not lifth the rod for a running start. I seated the ball on the powder with the palm of my hand (old, bad habit). I would rate it as easy as Natural Lube on all counts. The recovered patches (I found 6 - the weeds are knee high) all looked good except one had a thin spot that could be seen when holding it up to the sky. Not a hole or a tear, but on part of the weave pulled away from the other threads. No burning or blowthroughs. I figured I did this on loading. I was deliberately trying to use a minimal coating to see if the lube was successful.

The bad news is that the group was at least 4" high and as big as the bull, about 6". That's horrible. These were mid-power 75 gr. loads. I'm very happy with the lubricating qualities but need to try again for accuracy under better conditions before I accept that. I'll have to chop down the weeds so I can at least use a sitting position.

Clean up was with boiling soapy water sucked through the breech by pumping a wet patch on the jag with the primer removed, followed by a rinse of clear boiling water and a fresh patch. I then ran a dry patch down the barrel - and came up with lube remaining! It certainly is more tenacious that Natural Lube. My normal cleaning process usually results in a clean patch after the two water types being pumped through.

Being brave, I used only more Grease #4 to re-coat the barrel inside and out after it had cooled. I figured this is as good a 'test' as any - the real deal.

I'll now go back to my original plans for the test metal with these two greases (and keep a close eye on my rifle, too).

 

[Zonie]

Stumpkiller: Keep those tests coming. Very interesting reading.

As for the lube in the bore after you cleaned it, I would kinda expect that because of the Bees Wax.
It is just about as waterproof a stuff as anything I know of. (I suspect that ole Mom Nature gave the bees the power to make something to keep water out of their honey.)
That is why I follow the dishsoap+water flush with Hoppes #9 when I've used my 50% Beeswax + 50% Vasoline mix on the paper patched bullets in my Schuetzen.

 

Interesting you should mention the oil weaking cloth over time. Here is a true story that might back up that claim. Years ago,when I was 17, before the War of Independance I think, or at least prior to the Neolithic age, I worked for an explosives company. We made AmFo, based on ammonium nitrate sensitized with fuel oil with charcoal added for color. Why color an explosive is beyond me, but we bagged the stuff in heavy paper bags lined with plastic and sewed the bags shut with heavy string. The dry string shed fibers into the sewing machine and caused it to bind up and break the string. My buddy came up with the bright idea of soaking the rolls of string in light machine oil and lo and behold, the string slid thru the sewing maching like grease thu a goose. (huh?) Well anyway it worked like a charm until we learned that the bags of AmFo stored in magazines for a few weeks were breaking open. Seems the machine oil rotted and weakened the string so that it fell apart spilling tons of explosive mix all over the place!
Naturally the boss, Egor Thumper, made us kids shovel the stuff into new 50 pound sacks and re-sew it all shut again!
As an aside, us guys, we were high school buds, managed to borrow neat stuff like det-cord, boosters, primers and such to experiment with.
We primed and fused a 5 pound booster and threw it into an isolated river. How were we to know the river was only 3 feet deep?!
Well I'll tell ya, we sure got quick at dodging dead carp and catfish! :haha: Imagine a 15 pound carp getting blown 50 feet into the air and comming back down at terminal velocity!
Then there was the time a neighbor built a small pond, but it wouldn't fill with water, so we dug a hole 2 feet around, by about 3 feet deep, put in a stick of ditching dynamite we'd borrowed, then plugged the hole with a very large rock!
We learned right quick that we'd made an earthen CANNON I don't know how high that rock went as we cleared the neighborhood before it reached the height of it's trajectory and lit out of town! :shocking:

 

[bob1961]

"Then there was the time a neighbor built a small pond, but it wouldn't fill with water, so we dug a hole 2 feet around, by about 3 feet deep, put in a stick of ditching dynamite we'd borrowed, then plugged the hole with a very large rock!
We learned right quick that we'd made an earthen CANNON I don't know how high that rock went as we cleared the neighborhood before it reached the height of it's trajectory and lit out of town!"


we dug a hole about a foot dia and 18" deep one forth of july so that a 5 gallon plastic can would cover it just enough and dropped a ash can in the hole covered the hole with the can and ran like hell....well that can just about went into orbit....stayed together all but the 5 or so splits in the sides....you have a habit of learning real fast when playing with stuff like that..............bob

 

Reminds me of a joke I heard years ago.

City kid, out of work, moves to the country, but doesn't know diddly about country living. Hungry and looking for work, he sees an old farmer trying to pull up the stump of an ancient oak. Kid pulls over to the fence and climbs out of his shiny new pickup truck. "Sir, I need work and can remove that stump for you." Farmer asks, "You got any experience pullin stumps?" Kid replies, "There's no stump I can't move, I'm the best stump puller you can find." "Well, okay son, I'll give you a try." Next morning, kid shows up all set to remove the stump. He drills a hole into the base of the stump. Not knowing how much dynamite to use, he shoves two sticks into the hole. Setting the blasting cap and lighting the fuse, the kid runs behind his truck. The old farmer watches on from the comfort of his back porch. BOOOOOOOM!!! The stump flies out of the ground like an Apollo rocket, arks over and slams down on top of the cab of the kid's new truck. Old farmer ambles over, "You know son, I had my doubts about you being the best, but damn, another four foot and you would have drop that sumbitch right in the back of your truck. :haha: