Main charge question

[Rodneystiffler]

I was just reading the new Hawkin book and I was blown away by the size of the charges that the author used, 160 gr 2f in 58 cal, 140 grains of 2f in .54 Cal. What are some of you guys using for hunting loads. Right now I’m using 80 and 85 grain 2f in my 50 and 54.

 

[OldSmoky1967]

I was just reading the new Hawkin book and I was blown away by the size of the charges that the author used, 160 gr 2f in 58 cal, 140 grains of 2f in .54 Cal. What are some of you guys using for hunting loads. Right now I’m using 80 and 85 grain 2f in my 50 and 54.

I'm at 75 grains: .54

 

[oldwood]

Don't know much about Hawkin rifles , except they were made to be shot at longer ranges at game , and their weight made them better to carry on a horses back. One turn in 66" to 1 turn in 72" might have been used. The Larger powder charges can be fired from a slow twist barrel w/o stripping the rifling's grip on the patch ball. In the Eastern woods where shots on deer seldom go more than 125 yds. , .54 through .62. seldom need go more than 85 gr. , in .54. , to 90gr. for a .62. ,would be good.......oldwood

 

[Grenadier1758]

Every Hawken rifle made by the brothers Jake and Sam were rifled on the only rifling bench in the shop. A 1 in 48" twist. As far as I know, only 1 in 48" twists have been measured. Deep grooves prevented any stripping of the patched ball. The heavy weight tamed the recoil from those large charges.

In the eastern woods, a 45 caliber rifle was considered large bore for the large game that was hunted and that included bear. They did hunt differently. Ranges were short so shot placement of a 45 caliber ball was lethal.

 

[Art Caputo]

Haven’t hunted or shot my 54 Hawken load much for the past couple of decades but my go to hunting load was 110gr of FFG.

 

[Zutt-man]

I shoot 80 gr FFF in my .58. Gets me 1” groups at 50 yds. Knocks deer dead at 75

 

[Daryl Crawford]

My .54 likes 70gr 2F for solid accuracy at 50 yards. It holds that out to 70 yards. I'm in eastern woodlands so that range is good. If I was hunting more open ground I'd work up a larger load.

 

[Rodneystiffler]

Really liking the feedback, I’m real new to flintlock’s but I’m looking at that being my primary hunting tool.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Really liking the feedback, I’m real new to flintlock’s but I’m looking at that being my primary hunting tool.

I'm using 70 grains of 3Fg in my .65, my two .54's, my .50, and my .45. I use 60 grains of 3Fg in my .40 because I use 30 grains for small game, and the legal minimum load for deer in my state using a .40 is 60 grains of powder, so 2 x 30 grains makes sense.

OH the farthest shot on a deer that I have taken, was 110 yards with my .530 patched round ball, and the ball went through the deer broadside, striking ribs going in and coming out. I was using the load that I've sited above.

There are a lot of folks that don't quite fathom the large change that happens when you go from the performance of modern "fixed" ammunition in a cartridge, to a muzzleloader, using a vintage lead projectile, or even more of a change when talking soft lead round ball. These same folks often appear to be trying to duplicate velocities found in that modern day ammunition, when it's wholly unneeded.

There was a famous hunter during the black powder era, who hunted large game as well as dangerous game, who advocated huge projectiles and massive powder loads, wanting not to have to adjust his sights from 0-200 yards, BUT then admitted in his book on the subject that he had never had a shot of more than 100 yards, and the vast majority of his shots were at 75 yards or less.... go figure ???

LD

 

[Electrod47]

I use nothing over 80 period and always get the desired result, whether on paper or flesh. If I want more force I work with the projectiles weight and shape.

 

[morehops52]

Been using 110gr 3f with a 430gr maxi for many years. Yes, it's punishing on both ends.

 

[Rodneystiffler]

It’s looking like my 80 gr is what should use for now.

 

[excess650]

I'm using 60gr ffg in my .45, 80gr fffg in my .50, used 85gr fffg in my .54, and never more than 100gr fffg in my .58. I use 100 -120gr fffg in my .62, and have used ffg to similar results by bumping the charge another 20gr, all Goex.

The furthest I have shot and taken deer was 125yards+, but was steep, downhill across a hollow, so drop woud have been more akin to a 75 yard shot.

As of late, I've been shooting some old Elephant BP from the mid '90s. It is a mix of ffg and fffg, and needs an additional 20gr vs the 60gr charge of Goex ffg in my .45. Using even higher charges gave unacceptable results in the way of groups on target.

I don't know the context of "the new Hawkin book", so can only speculate the author using weak powder at those charge levels. My experience tells me there are points of diminishing return with each caliber, and the powder being used.

 

[smo]

The gun will let you know how much powder is needed.
The load that groups the best is the one for that gun…

I use 70 grns of fffg Goex in my .54, It shoots just as well with 85..

My hunting area has limited opportunities at anything much over 100 yards…. And those spots are few and far between.,

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

I'd agree to shoot 'test groups' for both the 50/54 to also see what load groups the best, due to barrel harmonics. Use the back of your hand on a sandbag or other, as a rest, do not rest the forend or barrel on the rest when shooting fromthe bench.

I also find that ... "for me" ... shooting from the sitting position gives me (1) the same point of impact and (2) group position (but tighter, of course) as when shooting standing up. I've seen guys 'bench test' their rifles ... only to find that the group shifts up to 6" or so when fired offhand from the shoulder ...

Thus I advocate to bench test to 'tune the best load', then practice as you'll hunt .

 

[Robby]

Are there any surviving bags with powder measures used with original Hawken rifles. Seems like someone would have taken measurements.
Robby

 

[oldwood]

This might be of some help far as the calibers in the Eastern woods. Unanimously , all the original books I have state , .47 to .60 cal. were considered the favorite calibers for hunting and war. A 130 gr. / .45 cal ball , was considered inadequate for bears , buffalo , and elk in the Eastern forests. This info comes from original manuscripts. .............oldwood

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Using the davenport formula, the max load I can use without wasting powder is 74.5gr, which just happens to be my hunting load. Thats 2033fps. out the 42 inch Rice swamped barrel.

 

[necchi]

Right now I’m using 80 and 85 grain 2f in my 50 and 54.

Yeah, I'm there too around 75-80grns,
Some of these guy's just get stuck with "magnum-itis",, they think;
"I'm hunting, I NEED massive loads to do the job!"
They don't,, but it's near impossible to convince them. If they happen to harvest a single deer with the massive load it only emboldens them with "Proof" that the load works and they wonder around spouting about how perfect it is.

 

[morehops52]

Based on what I've been readinfg here, I've been way over-powered (over-powdered?) :>). I'm going to try backing down my loads and see how my groups go compared to what I've been using. I'm sure my shoulder will like it.