Man Died From Muzzle Loader Accident

[Eric Krewson]

About firing an unprimed flintlock; My friend said before he knew better he was in his living room with a loaded but unprimed flintlock. Seems like he pulled the hammer back a little but it slipped out of his grasp and the flint struck the frizzen. He said it was like it was in slow motion, the flint hit the frizzen and produced one spark that bounced off the pan and directly into the touch hole. BOOM and he saw a large hole in his living room wall that he now had to explain to his wife.

 

[griffiga]

I always pull my load at the end of the day. I figure a greasy patch sitting all day on top of the powder is not the best. I like to know I have a fresh load starting a new day’s hunt.

 

[RHKrause]

As a NRA Instructor for Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun and Home Safety and a former SC CWP Instructor, I teach (Taught) all my students that All Weapons are loaded and all Blades are Sharp.

 

[flashpoint]

Think twice and save your life...excitement of the season we love so much and wait all year long for. Its easy to get caught up in your thoughts and excitement and get careless....its not worth it...load in woods...in the end discharge in woods.....a few minutes of cleaning when you get back.

Good advice. I do exactly that.

 

[HiDesertHunter]

I always pull my load at the end of the day. I figure a greasy patch sitting all day on top of the powder is not the best.

Not really necessary as what little grease is in a patch isn't going to affect the charge. I have left a ML loaded for a couple days (cap off and safely secured!) and never a problem.

 

[coaster]

Always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.

 

[Flinty Scot]

I didn't see mention of what type ML rifle he had, but agree that leaving a cap on is pure folly. I don't trust unprimed flinters either. Mine self primes about 3 out of 5 shots, whether I intend it or not. When not primed, it's not considered legally loaded here but I'd want a feather tight in the touch hole and a good hammer stall as well, before I'd consider it 1/2 way safe.

If I felt removing the flint necessary for safety, I believe I'd just clear it by firing before transport.

 

[Griz44Mag]

How many here, leave a loaded M/L in their vehicle over night or longer so they do not have to take it inside where it is warm at night? See it mentioned quite a bit, even recently.

I have done that several times. I hunt with a group I trust - without reservation. And we stay for several days in the old farmhouse on site.
The "modern" stuff gets unloaded and placed in the common rack, bolts open. Those guys don't want their guns outside overnight.
I have tried to explain to them by keeping them indoors and hauling them out into the cold the next morning means fogged glass and a bore that is a different temp than hunting conditions. But do they listen? No..... Of course not.....
A couple of the guys hunt with sticks and strings, I am the only one that makes white smoke.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Again this whole thing sounds like asking the Government to figure it out...and we know how they work....

 

[FishDFly]

When it's cold, whatever I am hunting with stays in a vehicle or in the garage over night. I don't like guns sweating, especially in places I cannot see.

After reading all the posts here, I am going to order the cap cover from October Country in the morning. The more I think about it, the cover makes sense for a couple of reasons. When your hands are cold, getting a cap off a rifle can be a challenge.

Another safety item. Several years ago I was walking back to the house in the dark and tripped over a root in the road. In an effort to protect the gun I held on to it and broke 2 ribs when I fell, along with losing my glasses. Now, the gun wears a sling when walking which leaves my hands free.

 

[N.Y. Yankee]

If I'm going to leave my gun charged and put it in the vehicle until the next hunt, the cap comes off the nipple and the gun goes into a leather sleeve with the end tied shut. Gonna be pretty difficult for it to "go off" without someone's help. RIP Michael Ray.

 

[Kansas Jake]

After I pull the cap I lower the hammer on a piece of leather between the hammer and nipple. It just gives me another level of safety and keeps moisture from the charge although it is unlikely much would enter through the nipple. I can also see in a glance it is uncapped.

 

[Many Klatch]

I have posted this elsewhere but it seems appropriate.

Some years the Widowmakers were having a discussion/argument about how often a flintlock with an empty pan would go off if the hammer dropped. So 10 of us loaded with blanks and no powder in the pan and stood in line side by side and pointed down range. On the command we cocked the firearms and pulled the trigger. The first time one gun fired off, that surprised us. We tried that two or three more times. Each time, a different gun went off. We finally decided that you have a 1 in 10 chance of your flintlock going off if the pan is empty but the gun is loaded. This is probably not statistically correct but it was close enough for us.

Leather Frizzen covers and a feather in the touch hole is an improvement but the only safe flintlock is an empty one.

 

[rrebuck]

So how long until the gun control cooks file suit against the mfr and try to bankrupt them?

 

[HiDesertHunter]

Interesting, and revealing experiment!

I all my years of ML I never considered the possibility of a flintlock igniting WITHOUT a priming charge - but then I never owned or had any experience with them.

 

[HiDesertHunter]

So how long until the gun control cooks file suit against the mfr and try to bankrupt them?

I am not a lawyer but I doubt a Mfg. could be held liable as there would have to be a 'precedent' established of similar incidents with this particular style of rifle - and I doubt there are many to cite.

The death of the owner was self inflicted, involved no one else, and was due to his obvious negligence in the handling of the rifle - not due to a mechanical or other failure.

There may be no 'manufacturer' of this particular rifle around any more to file suit against.

Again - no legal experience but I don't see anything that puts anything other than 'operator error' as to the cause of this.

Comparatively I read MANY reports of similar situations with unmentionable firearms with nothing 'legal' resulting from them.

 

[arcticap]

Interesting, and revealing experiment!

I all my years of ML I never considered the possibility of a flintlock igniting WITHOUT a priming charge - but then I never owned or had any experience with them.

Same here.
They will ignite because the powder can flow right next to the vent.

.38 Special posted:
"My flintlocks tend to have thinned and enlarged touch holes, and I ensure that powder from the main charge is visible before I prime the pan. On a bet, I once fired my best rifle four times in a row without priming the pan, and I suspect the misfire on the fifth go-round would have been avoided if I'd touched up the flint."

I read an interesting post about there being some antique flintlocks that were known as
"self-priming flintlocks" because they had large vents, large enough for powder to dribble into the pan during the loading process.
After the gun was loaded, it could also be bumped on the ground to help powder grains trickle into the pan.
This was a desirable trait for military guns and for hunting on horseback when accurate shooting and misfires were not as much of a concern.
The military would fire by volleys and Indians would hunt buffalo at point blank range so there wasn't much concern about misfires.
Unless the vent was plugged before loading they knew that the pan was already primed.

 

[hawkeye2]

A 1 in 10 chance of it going off is better odds than Russian roulette but still not a game I want to play.

 

[Sidney Smith]

Ive left my flintlocks with a charge in them many times. Nothing in tje pan thpugh. I place a pipe cleaner in the flash hole and lower the frizzen. Gun isnt going to go off with the flash hole plugged.

 

[HiDesertHunter]

Bottom line - a loaded ML is no more dangerous than ANY firearm providing the BASIC rules of gun safety are ALWAYS applied.

This is not debatable. NEARLY all so called 'accidental discharges' are not accidental but due to negligence.

Fortunately not all negligent discharges result in injury or death because one or more basic rules were followed - and mostly that of muzzle control - and there are lots more of these than anything else but we typically never hear of them unless we have had it happen, know someone its happened to etc. - which a LOT of us have.

Heck I can describe a few I have heard of - and one I witnessed (not me).