Maximum effective range of flintlock rifle?

[Grizzled Roberts]

Capt Ewald of the Jeagers was said to hit a man, with his personal rifle, at 500 yards during the British attack on Charleston in 1780. Of course many of the German rifles had leaf sights out to 400 yards or greater to shoot from mountain top to mountain top in Germany.

Both Ewald and Hanger both stated that " a good American rifleman can hit a man in the head at 200 yards and in the body at 300 yards."

Not every rifleman was a sharpshooter, but there were enough sharpshooters for the British officers to notice.

:thumbsup:

 

[Many Klatch]

I have been told that the maximum theoretical distance for a round ball gun is 800 yards. Regardless of caliber, or powder charge, the ball runs out of steam at about 800 yards and falls to the ground. Now before someone comes in and says that cannons shoot farther than that, yes they do, but they aren't shoulder mounted. If someone will shoulder a cannon and shoot it then I will have to revise my figures.

So accuracy at 800 yards with a round ball, no. Possible to hit someone, well anything is possible as long as the shooter is very lucky and the shootee is very unlucky.

Many Klatch

 

[slowpokebr549]

This sounds like a job for Mythbusters.

 

[Captain outwater]

I have read an account of a father son team of marksmen during the revolution who shot Brits from a hollow tree at over a quarter mile- using a wall gun. It was I believe, a 4 guage- or 4 balls to the pound! Big, Heavy, long, and shot from a static position.

 

[Semisane]

I have read an account of a father son team of marksmen during the revolution who shot Brits from a hollow tree at over a quarter mile- using a wall gun. It was I believe, a 4 guage- or 4 balls to the pound! Big, Heavy, long, and shot from a static position.

I wonder, if they were a quarter mile away from the Brits, why did they bother hiding in a hollow tree. Surely the smoke would give away their position anyway. :wink:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Shooting from a quarter of a mile away sounds incredible, but convert the distance to yards and it becomes 440 yards. Still a long shot with a patched ball but now it sounds a little more doable--especially for a skilled rifleman using a large bore rifle. :v

 

[kevthebassman]

I wonder, if they were a quarter mile away from the Brits, why did they bother hiding in a hollow tree. Surely the smoke would give away their position anyway. :wink:

Well, if you were in a battle situation, the whole field would likely be filled with smoke, so I don't think that a little smoke wouldn't have been all that noticeable. Now, a lone marksman or group of a couple of men might have stood out on a field of battle, and been target to cavalry attack. Just my theory.

 

[Dphar]

The larger bore rifles .66 and up carry much better than the smaller bores .62 and down.
A 54 cal simply will not shoot past about 800 yards. The ball just will not make it to 1000. This from actual tests done by a friend with a flintlock rifle.
A 50 caliber rifle will hit a man pretty reliably at 300 yards if the wind cooperates and the shooter has either adjustable/leaf sights or a good aiming point about 4 feet over the target. I have shot at a "bad guy" silhouette at 300 and got 1 "kill", one near miss and one that would have killed his horse if standing right, in three shots.
200 yards is pretty easy with a 54, a good rifle should shoot into 5-10 inches. 30" steel gong can be hit with 54s to 500 yards or so if you have an aiming point etc. and the wind is not doing much. But RBs are very wind sensitive as the range increases.
To be long ranged enough and powerful enough to use on man sized targets at 800 yards the ball will likely need to weigh at least 1/4 to 1/2 a pound.
As someone else noted sights are a problem. Even at 200 its tough to consistently shoot well with barrel sights.
Most RB rifles are pretty useless past 150 yards unless the shooter is very practiced at shooting at longer distances and *estimating the range*. By 200 yards a ball is falling fast.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

Have you read the account of General George Hanger about when him and Banester Tarlton were shot at by a rifleman??? I can't remember if the shot was 3-400 yards, but I believe it was 400..
And they were very lucky... :grin:

Personally...I could kill you every time at 150, I shoot that pretty regularly...

But the flintlock is capable of much better than that, that's just the limit of my range...

Colonel George Hanger (a noted rifleman himself) stated "I have several times passed over this ground and observed it with the greatest attention and can positively assert that the distance he fired from, at us, was full 400 yards."
The ball passed between Tarleton and himself and killed the "bugle-horn" man's horse behind them.

It is reported that General Fraser was killed at 300 yards and another senior officer under Burgoyne was wounded at about the same distance during the Battle of Bemis Heights (Second Saratoga). This by unknown members of Morgan's Riflemen. While Timothy Murphy is credited with this I do not believe there is any evidence from the period since in Fraser's case several men were firing at him. Fraser did say the man who shot him was in a tree.
This info is from "Colonial Riflemen in the American Revolution" By Joe Huddleston. Its a good book but I think Shumway only printed 2000 of them in 1978.
It needs to be reprinted.

Dan

 

[B Shipman]

This is about right. There were a number of rifleman looking for Frasier. With certainty, I think 150 yds.
As an aside, I can stick 15 shots from my Glock 17 ( 9mm 17 clip) into a torso at 70 yds. I think the same is true in principle with a longrifle at longer range. At 300, it's far from certain but someone may get him. At 150 he's a goner with a number of experienced riflemen working on it.

 

[B Shipman]

P.S. If anyone wants to dispute the Glock, we take bets. And I must do it in 12 seconds. This is a pain so you come to me and the min. bet is $500 if you're sure of yourself. I have lost. This is relevant. If you know your weapon, you can use it beyond what is certain with great effect.

 

[Frank/Pa]

I have never shot a pistol at 70 yards, but can do head shots all day long at 50 yards with my Colt model 1911 in 45 acp. Same deal with my Smith and Wesson model 14 in 38 special.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Now here's a thought. I used to win beers with my longbow at 3-D shoots at a 65 yard target. I knew at that range I could sight my otherwise sightless bow by using the tip of my arrow and setting it on the center of the target and I'd be "point-on" as they call it at that range.

Of course, I'd paced off and noted some feature that allowed me to stand exactly where I needed to be and the compound/sight pin shooters had no reference distance stakes at that range.

I also know that for the 80 yard (longest) field archery target I focus on an imaginary spot 12 feet above the target and that puts me in the general target spot.

Someone who had done similar homework and knew, say that if he aimed three-man-heights above a distant enemy he'd be on for a given distance. All it takes is dusty ground and a spotter to help you with hold-over adjustments. I used to woodchuck hunt with a .36 T/C Seneca and my buddy had a .45 T/C Hawken. We'd hit the occasional 250 yard chuck . . . and that's less than half a human torso as far as angle of dispersion. That took most of the front sight held over.

Not tricks that apply to hunting, but in war where the object is to inflict casualties and keep the enemy at bay it beats just making faces.

 

[benvenuto]

I think we need a Muzzleloading forum 500 yard/450 metre flintlock match to settle this one...

2.4 x 1.2 (8'x4') plywood target with the shooters silouhette traced on it?

 

[tg]

"Where does the claim of 500 to 800 meter accuracy come from" I have heard a lot about these claims but have not seen the period evidence but that does not mean it was not there, most likley due to the fact the there were peep sights on crossbows in the 14th century these long range guns had a Lyman type or other modern type peep which somehow all records of such a sight existing at the time have been lost, an no doubt the projectile would be a TC maxi ball or bullalo bullet or any of the modern design connicals...once again any evidence of these in the 18th century has been lost, they are probably buried somewhere with short starters.

 

[ResearchPress]

Have a look at the historical perspective on Long Range Shooting on my web site.

Ezekiel Baker in his REMARKS ON RIFLE GUNS, Third Edition of 1806 (and later editions) stated - "I have found two hundred yards the greatest range I could fire at to any certainty. At three hundred yards I have fired very well at times when the wind has been calm. At four and five hundred yards I have frequently fired, and I have some times struck the object...."

I wouldn't like to be next to someone firing large charges and heavy bullets from a flintlock - the pressures would most likely generate quite a bit of 'blow back' through the vent. I have done a lot of shooting at long range with percussion rifles and elongated bullets. The nipples on these match rifles are usually platinum lined to prevent their rapid erosion.

David

 

[T-Stick]

Another way of shooting longer ranges with standard filed in sights, without obscuring the target, is to place the top of the rear sights flush with the bottom of the front sight and still set the target above the front post. This was a trick used by open sight longrange marksmen. You learned how far down to go on your front sight for specific yardages. Long range shooting required a precise method of elevation without sighting in for long range--in case you had a short range shot. You learned to double the charge and give Kentucky elevation.

 

[tdamico]

"Where does the claim of 500 to 800 meter accuracy come from" I have heard a lot about these claims but have not seen the period evidence but that does not mean it was not there, most likley due to the fact the there were peep sights on crossbows in the 14th century these long range guns had a Lyman type or other modern type peep which somehow all records of such a sight existing at the time have been lost, an no doubt the projectile would be a TC maxi ball or bullalo bullet or any of the modern design connicals...once again any evidence of these in the 18th century has been lost, they are probably buried somewhere with short starters.

Do you mean short starters like these? (With attached powder measure)

Rifle Ball Starter and Powder Measure
A wood starter was used to seat the patched round ball evenly into the muzzle of the rifle. Then the riflemen used his ramrod to push the ball down the barrel prior to firing. This starter includes an attached powder measure.
Horn, rawhide, wood. L 10.1 cm
The George C. Neumann Collection, Valley Forge National Historical Park, VAFO 1311