Mild steel for knives

[Two Feathers]

The Japanese folded steel multiple times to homogenize poor quality raw materials, and for no other reason.

car/truck leaf springs are commonly 5160 or a variant of that steel. Excellent blade steel, but a pain under the hammer.
axles are commonly 4140. Excellent for hammers and punches/drifts, but not particularly good at edge retention.
the 2nd pair of numbers in a carbon steel type is the % of carbon, with a decimal in front ie: 1095= 0.95% carbon (a high carbon steel) 1040= 0.40% carbon, which is considered a medium/low carbon steel. In general, steels with a carbon content of less than 0.60% are not considered as usable by blade makers.

Centurian: If you want a piece of virgin 1095 blade steel, I have some 1x1/4 in the shed I think. I’d be happy to send a piece if you cover shipping. Then again, a few sticks of 1080 from new jersey steel baron is cheap and possibly the easiest steel to properly heat treat.

Steve2md:
Here's where I get ALL of my 1095 HC steel. Admiral Steel - On-Line Store This company was recommended to me by a well known knife maker and it's proven itself to be everything he said.
I've looked around ( including NJ Steel Barons) and these guys have the best prices bar none! Their steel is clean, chemically certified, shipped securely, fully annealed ( if desired), GREAT quality, and the website gives you any heat treating info. you need.
Again, just my $0.02
God bless:
Two Feathers

 

[M&P]

A century old way to increase carbon : Hammer the steel when it is bright red on a hard wood surface ( maple, walnut ect.) Repeat the process several times. Somehow the carbon in the wood will transfer in the steel. It will not make a 1010 mild steel bar into 1095, but it will increase its carbon rate.

 

[Steve2md]

Steve2md:
Here's where I get ALL of my 1095 HC steel. Admiral Steel - On-Line Store This company was recommended to me by a well known knife maker and it's proven itself to be everything he said.
I've looked around ( including NJ Steel Barons) and these guys have the best prices bar none! Their steel is clean, chemically certified, shipped securely, fully annealed ( if desired), GREAT quality, and the website gives you any heat treating info. you need.
Again, just my $0.02
God bless:
Two Feathers

I appreciate the lead. I only do stock removal on 1 line of blades and they are 52100 steel (I have the blanks water jetted so it’s just beveling and heat treating to speed things up). Everything else I make is forged, so shipping annealed doesn’t really matter to me.

 

[Howard Pippin]

I did a lot of strange repairs in my life. International M tractors were noted for breaking spindles when they had a loader on. We used to make replacement spindles out of truck axles. You could turn them down in a lathe taken a very small bite at a time using carbide bits. The darn things were really tough, It was a pretty slow process. The metal that was removed would come off and turn blue, it was that hot. I never tried making a knife out of one, I guess a person would have to do so with just a grinder and that would really be a slow process.
Squint

 

[LRB]

1095 steel is not a beginners steel. It is the worst possible choice for beginners or those who have not researched the heat treating for it. It cannot be treated as other common blade steels. For max hardness and results in quench, it requires a very fast cooling oil to drop the full austenitic heat, 1475°, to below 900° in .8 of one second, or the blade will begin a reverse back to a mixed solution of austenite and pearlite. Only two good oils I know of for 1095 are commercial HT oils. This mixed solution condition in the steel will fool you using a file skate test, for it will skate a file, but yet not hold a good edge after finished and put to use. A 3rd oil contender for the HT is warmed canola. It will get you by but just barely. Actually, even the fastest oil will not allow max hard, but it will come close enough. For absolute max hard in a 1095 quench, you have to use a brine solution. Risky, but some use it. 1084 steel is a much better choice, and much more forgiving in the heat treat, and can out easily out perform poorly heat treated 1095. NJ Barons' 1084 has a little vanadium added to it which makes it even easier to get a good HT, and it adds a tad more edge retention.

 

[Centurion]

Remember my initial post? All this stuff here is what i lied about .

 

[44-henry]

I messed around with mild steel knives years ago and carburized them using pack hardening techniques where I got very deep case depths. After hardening and tempering they held a good edge and were very tough because of the soft steel in the thicker section on the spine. Not really any cost savings because of the added labor and expense of fuel used, but can be done. Not a good way to make a knife for a beginner, but a good test just to see what can be done.

 

[eggwelder]

I cant imagine how hard car axles would and do not want to find out

Almost ruined my anvil trying to forge car axle steel

 

[Tom A Hawk]

I made this kitchen knife from rebar. Holds a good edge.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I don't think you are going to get any takers who successfully made any type of cutting tool out of mild steel.

Amen, Bro.

 

[SPQR70AD]

I made this kitchen knife from rebar. Holds a good edge.
View attachment 40224

nice job

 

[SPQR70AD]

1095 steel is not a beginners steel. It is the worst possible choice for beginners or those who have not researched the heat treating for it. It cannot be treated as other common blade steels. For max hardness and results in quench, it requires a very fast cooling oil to drop the full austenitic heat, 1475°, to below 900° in .8 of one second, or the blade will begin a reverse back to a mixed solution of austenite and pearlite. Only two good oils I know of for 1095 are commercial HT oils. This mixed solution condition in the steel will fool you using a file skate test, for it will skate a file, but yet not hold a good edge after finished and put to use. A 3rd oil contender for the HT is warmed canola. It will get you by but just barely. Actually, even the fastest oil will not allow max hard, but it will come close enough. For absolute max hard in a 1095 quench, you have to use a brine solution. Risky, but some use it. 1084 steel is a much better choice, and much more forgiving in the heat treat, and can out easily out perform poorly heat treated 1095. NJ Barons' 1084 has a little vanadium added to it which makes it even easier to get a good HT, and it adds a tad more edge retention.

I have absolutely no use for 1095 steel and wonder why it is popular

 

[SPQR70AD]

I made a knife out of a flat bar. used them 45 years beating them with 28 ounce hammers to pry apart boards. pulled out countless nails used them to chip concrete of walls forms. shoved them under shingles to pop out nails to replace a shingle etc. never saw one bend chip or break so I made this knife out of a flat bar

 

[44-henry]

Amen, Bro.

Not entirely true, the project I mentioned above used a deeply carburized mild steel and I have also made blister steel from mild steel. The key is to add carbon, of course when you are finished you no longer have mild steel, but that is what you start with. As I mentioned earlier it is not a good approach for a beginner and there are much better materials out there, but if I needed to make a knife and all I had was mild steel I could make a decent one using these techniques.

 

[Notchy Bob]

I made this kitchen knife from rebar. Holds a good edge.
View attachment 40224

Tom A Hawk, were you able do do any kind of heat treatment on that blade made of rebar? It's a very sporty looking knife.

Not entirely true, the project I mentioned above used a deeply carburized mild steel and I have also made blister steel from mild steel. The key is to add carbon, of course when you are finished you no longer have mild steel, but that is what you start with. As I mentioned earlier it is not a good approach for a beginner and there are much better materials out there, but if I needed to make a knife and all I had was mild steel I could make a decent one using these techniques.

44-Henry, thank you for sharing your experience and expertise. I think this is the best type of response for answering the OP's question.

There is no doubt that a high carbon steel will make a "better" knife. You might also argue that an M94 in .30-30 makes a "better" hunting rifle than a flintlock, in terms of rate of fire, ease of cleaning, availability of ammunition, and possibly ballistics, but that's not why we are here. People on the frontier two or three centuries ago simply didn't have the technology or resources that we have now. They certainly used the best they could get, but the couldn't always get the best. We try to replicate the tools and techniques they used to gain a better insight into their lives and, of course, for our own enjoyment and edification.

As described in my previous post, I found several references to iron or "soft steel" knives on the frontier and tried a knife of mild steel out of curiosity. It did indeed have some shortcomings, as would be expected, but I found through personal experience that it worked in completing routine chores to which a camp knife might be subjected. As with a flintlock rifle, you just learn to work with its limitations and enjoy the experience. For the record, this is not my "go to" sheath knife; I have a variety of carbon steel knives (including three made by LRB) which I like better, but I can now fall back on actual personal experience, rather than just theory, when discussing mild steel blades.

Best regards to all,

Notchy Bob

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Tom A Hawk, were you able do do any kind of heat treatment on that blade made of rebar? It's a very sporty looking knife.

Just getting into forging and this was my first attempt at a knife. I heated it to the point where a magnet would not stick then water quenched. My only complaint with this knife is it stains easily with use in the kitchen.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Not entirely true, the project I mentioned above used a deeply carburized mild steel and I have also made blister steel from mild steel. The key is to add carbon, of course when you are finished you no longer have mild steel, but that is what you start with. As I mentioned earlier it is not a good approach for a beginner and there are much better materials out there, but if I needed to make a knife and all I had was mild steel I could make a decent one using these techniques.

The key word was "successfully". What you made ended up as something other than mild steel.

 

[Centurion]

Thank you all for your input here. I still have another question, which is simply this: how many deer can you field dress with a mild steel knife before the edge gives out?

 

[44-henry]

I believe the question was could you use mild steel to make a knife and I simply stated it could be done. I did not start with O1, 1075, 1095, etc. it was plain old mild steel and processes that I believe to have some historical backing.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Thank you all for your input here. I still have another question, which is simply this: how many deer can you field dress with a mild steel knife before the edge gives out?

I have not used mine for field dressing deer, but I believe you would probably need to pause several times to touch up the blade. However, I can say that while the mild steel blade dulls quickly, it also sharpens easily. A few licks with a file and you're good to go again.

You can get a mild steel blade quite sharp. It will cut. It will not dull immediately, if you use it properly, but it will dull faster than a knife made of harder steel and will therefore require more frequent sharpening, and over time will wear out faster than a knife of better steel due to repeated sharpening. However, it will get the job done.

I'm pondering that phrase, "...before the edge gives out." I don't know if that means the point at which the knife begins to dull, and needs "touching up," or if we mean the point at which the knife gets so dull it will not cut, and requires a major sharpening session. Many people take great pride in keeping their cutting tools sharp, but a surprising number of folks would rather work with dull tools than go to the trouble of sharpening them.

Many years ago, I did a lot of work with fresh, green hides, mostly deer and cow. I used a Green River Dadley blade for fleshing, trimming, and scraping off the hair. I think these blades are made of 1075, with Rc hardness in the mid fifties, but I'm not certain of that. The knife worked best when it was sharp. I started every session of hide work by whetting the knife on an India stone to a near razor edge. I kept a Schrade HoneSteel in my hip pocket and would pause and steel the knife every few minutes. Steeling the blade took literally seconds. This sounds tedious, but in fact it made the work go faster by keeping the blade sharp, and I was usually ready to straighten up from the fleshing beam and rest my back at those intervals, anyway.

The best way to answer the question to your own satisfaction might be to make (or have made) a knife of mild steel and try it out. Chances are pretty good you will not be happy with it if you are used to working with knives of modern high-carbon steel with proper heat treatment, and you'll think it is a lousy knife. It's just that the common folk on the frontier two centuries ago would have not had that frame of reference. They might have only been familiar with the "soft steel" knives as described in the literature of the period... They would not have known any better, and would have done the best they could with what they had.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob