Military Heritage India-made Fusil de Chasse

[FlinterNick]

For sure not teak. Teak would be a poor choice for that even if they were stocked in it.

Most teak is not gunstock wood, grain is too tight and it doesn’t take drilling operations well at all.

 

[tenngun]

This is tge lock butt and barrel and trigger guard

fit of my loyalist. It doesn’t look like a butter knife and pressed to me.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Use of any firearm carries the risk of bodily harm.
Recent modern firearm recalls seem to bear this out.
My Indian guns have functioned as well as any firearm of the period in history they descend from and are made of better metal. They fill a niche market spot that lets me afford to have enjoyment shooting as near to the way 18th century folks would have.
If you don't like them don't buy, use or bash them because of your prejudices.
I will never compare Indian guns to a Kibler or other contemporary high end guns. I will however still get enjoyment from their use and maintenance in my low end muzzleloading hobby.
The talk of proof charges insuring that muzzleloaders are safe does not seem logical in the face of modern methods. Do you think the government should safeguard us by requiring proof? what a good way to control firearms use!!
Quality has many variables but Indian guns work for me even if they need work!!
LBL

I understand your point. Do Indian sourced guns go thorough the same proofing as lets say pedersoli,s? Dont know that why im asking.

 

[FlinterNick]

Why are your pictures red?

 

[FlinterNick]

This is tge lock butt and barrel and trigger guard View attachment 268210View attachment 268211View attachment 268212View attachment 268213fit of my loyalist. It doesn’t look like a butter knife and pressed to me.

Why are your pictures red?

 

[Commodore Swab]

So someone bought a lot of your guns then went out and bought an Indian gun. Just seemed odd is all and thought it best to clarify is all.

 

[tenngun]

Why are your pictures red?

Lighting in the room, taken at sunset and the background was orange red light

 

[tenngun]

I understand your point. Do Indian sourced guns go thorough the same proofing as lets say pedersoli,s? Dont know that why im asking.

European made guns have to be proofed to shoot there.
Indian guns are shipped out with out a touch hole and not proofed
American made barrels, Rice,cocerain or Green mountain are also not proofed. Yet we don’t hear about how unsafe those guns are.
I have never proofed a barrel.
Of note is the Bombay pipe bombs that explode left and right but reports of such are notable by their absence.
People have abused their guns or loaded with smokeless and are known to have blown, as are ‘proofed’ barrels. But we can’t find Indian barrels properly loaded blowing up
However forty years ago it wasn’t safe to shoot Italian Japanese or Spanish guns. They were wal hangers back then…. At least that’s what the snobs said

 

[FlinterNick]

European made guns have to be proofed to shoot there.
Indian guns are shipped out with out a touch hole and not proofed
American made barrels, Rice,cocerain or Green mountain are also not proofed. Yet we don’t hear about how unsafe those guns are.
I have never proofed a barrel.
Of note is the Bombay pipe bombs that explode left and right but reports of such are notable by their absence.
People have abused their guns or loaded with smokeless and are known to have blown, as are ‘proofed’ barrels. But we can’t find Indian barrels properly loaded blowing up
However forty years ago it wasn’t safe to shoot Italian Japanese or Spanish guns. They were wal hangers back then…. At least that’s what the snobs said

Nobody should proof their own guns, lacks independent viewing

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

European made guns have to be proofed to shoot there.
Indian guns are shipped out with out a touch hole and not proofed
American made barrels, Rice,cocerain or Green mountain are also not proofed. Yet we don’t hear about how unsafe those guns are.
I have never proofed a barrel.
Of note is the Bombay pipe bombs that explode left and right but reports of such are notable by their absence.
People have abused their guns or loaded with smokeless and are known to have blown, as are ‘proofed’ barrels. But we can’t find Indian barrels properly loaded blowing up
However forty years ago it wasn’t safe to shoot Italian Japanese or Spanish guns. They were wal hangers back then…. At least that’s what the snobs said

ok thanks.

 

[tenngun]

Nobody should proof their own guns, lacks independent viewing

If I were to proof I would feel comfortable doing it. I just don’t think it a good idea. I’m a firm believer that if one man can do something another man can.
Powder,lead,fuse,mich before and after, I don’t know what there is to independently view.
I don’t think exposure to over pressure for a test is a good idea.
Just for S and G I did shoot a PVC C pipe. Just a glued on end on and fused it. It fired several shots till it failed

 

[Commodore Swab]

I suggest you take a gander at Mike’s website and/or Google Mike Brooks Flintlocks.
The man knows his sheet.

Of this I have no doubt, absolutely beautiful work. What I don't see are Murdoch's, Jacobean muskets/pistols, matchlocks, blunderbusses, dragoons, miquelets, ect. What he does it very good and of a different era. I have no doubt he can make a beautiful earlier piece but it doesn't seem to be what he does which is why I have mentioned there is little to no competition for what India is producing. On the flip side India is not producing guns of the same period as what Mike builds. As a result you have builders (domestic and India) producing different products and trying to compare. TRS is the closest comparison but that is comparing a pile of castings to a complete ready to fire gun. It's all apples and oranges

 

[FlinterNick]

If I were to proof I would feel comfortable doing it. I just don’t think it a good idea. I’m a firm believer that if one man can do something another man can.
Powder,lead,fuse,mich before and after, I don’t know what there is to independently view.
I don’t think exposure to over pressure for a test is a good idea.
Just for S and G I did shoot a PVC C pipe. Just a glued on end on and fused it. It fired several shots till it failed

Anyone can overload or test their guns, however you can’t apply any legal witness marks, so whats the point?

The risk to yourself and potentially others is not good.

I’ve seen Don Getz do tests on 12L14 barrels to prove his point that its safe, he loaded a 12L14 barrel with powder within 1 inch of a 35 inch muzzle, nothing happened

Three times loaded, nothing. Four times loaded nothing.

Those self proof tests by loyalist arms and middlesex trading are really not proof tests at all, its just a way for them to deal with customer concerns over Indian barrels being unsafe.

 

[FlinterNick]

European made guns have to be proofed to shoot there.
Indian guns are shipped out with out a touch hole and not proofed
American made barrels, Rice,cocerain or Green mountain are also not proofed. Yet we don’t hear about how unsafe those guns are.
I have never proofed a barrel.
Of note is the Bombay pipe bombs that explode left and right but reports of such are notable by their absence.
People have abused their guns or loaded with smokeless and are known to have blown, as are ‘proofed’ barrels. But we can’t find Indian barrels properly loaded blowing up
However forty years ago it wasn’t safe to shoot Italian Japanese or Spanish guns. They were wal hangers back then…. At least that’s what the snobs said

A well machined black powder barrel will almost never explode, including Indian made barrels if they’re handled appropriately.

What I’ve never liked about american made barrels is they’re not stamped black powder only and the grade of steel beneath the barrel, Don Getz used to do that, but most will not any longer.

 

[sturmkatze]

This is one of the greatest urinating matches ever!

Is it? I’m now too cautious to respond. I’ll let you and Nick do so. It is irritating though.

 

[MikeWas]

Have you ever seen the gun markets in Pakistan ? You would be amazed what a person can build holding the project with his feet.

Back in the day, when the Brits controlled India, they outsourced all sorts of manufacturing to India. Many of the "British" firearms, especially military arms, were made in India.

 

[MikeWas]

A well machined black powder barrel will almost never explode, including Indian made barrels if they’re handled appropriately.

What I’ve never liked about american made barrels is they’re not stamped black powder only and the grade of steel beneath the barrel, Don Getz used to do that, but most will not any longer.

They don't add the touch hole to keep costs down. My understanding is that India taxes real firearms, including black powder muzzleloaders, heavily. There are also additional costs incurred in export/import fees.

If they don't drill the touch hole it is non-functional - a wall hanger for decoration.

 

[sturmkatze]

Here's what needs to be done to the Indian gun industry. Send someone over there with original guns that they are making and use them for the actual patterns, or at least TRS copies. Get some decent wood somewhere. Make some work benches for these guys to work on so they don't have to sit in the dirt anymore. Measure the original barrel every couple inches and make the barrels exactly the same. Make the locks from actual pattern pieces and have some sort of quality control. These guys should be able to reproduce 18th century quality levels. Show them how to sharpen a chisel. Make sure the stockers use patterns from original guns, Not bad pictures of the guns.
From what I have observed, the guys making these things either don't know or don't care what they are doing, probably a combination of both.
There is incredible potential there, they just need a foreman that knows how to make guns to run the outfit.

Mike have you ever talked to them? I know this one guy, used to own a big import company. They went and made repro helmets — the wwi German m.16 was wrong in that it had a weird long goofy brim. My friend and I showed him original wwi German helmets. I showed him reference books and he said that some other guy has told him they were correct. I told him the guy was full of fecal matter. I put the original right next to his repro. Other than the bill was too long, it was great. Don’t listen to me. It’s like that with Roman gear too 92% correct and the rest way off. The sub contingent way.

 

[FlinterNick]

Back in the day, when the Brits controlled India, they outsourced all sorts of manufacturing to India. Many of the "British" firearms, especially military arms, were made in India.

Those arms were made by British contracts and the ETC and subsidiaries.

They don't add the touch hole to keep costs down. My understanding is that India taxes real firearms, including black powder muzzleloaders, heavily. There are also additional costs incurred in export/import fees.

If they don't drill the touch hole it is non-functional - a wall hanger for decoration.

They dont drill the touch hole for legal reasons, has something to do with Indian gun laws and Canadian Gun Laws.

They don't add the touch hole to keep costs down. My understanding is that India taxes real firearms, including black powder muzzleloaders, heavily. There are also additional costs incurred in export/import fees.

If they don't drill the touch hole it is non-functional - a wall hanger for decoration.

It really depends on which shop in India is making them. Middlesex imports the worst I’ve seen, some of them have barrels with two breeches, one at the tang that is welded shut and one that is about 3inches from the breech, threaded and screwed to the rest of the barrel.

 

[sturmkatze]

Back in the day, when the Brits controlled India, they outsourced all sorts of manufacturing to India. Many of the "British" firearms, especially military arms, were made in India.

Copies were. They weren’t really good copies because they don’t have the quality control. It’s a cultural thing.