MINIE accuracy.

[ntech]

Hello!
A month ago I bought Ardesa Ranger rifle .It has 28" length 1-66" twist barrel. I've shot with .45 Lee MINIE 300 grain's bullet but my accuracy is poor.
I have only 5" group at 50 yrds. Is it too slow twist ? Maybe I need some practice ? What accuracy have you with this bullet ? Should I change bullet to REAl or MAXI ball ?
Any opinions ?
Best regards

 

Generally your 1:66 twist is too slow to stabilize the bullet. It's a roundall shooter.
I doubt any bullet will work well for you in the slow twist barrel though some claim to get good accuracy with them.
Have you tried patched round ball?

 

[ntech]

I bought rifle with MINIE mold. I shot some round .454 balls without patches but notihng impressive.
Twist is slow ,I know, but holes on target are clean, so bullet is stabilized well during flying IMHO.
Someone told me " .. the minie aren't accurate at all ..'
Is it true ? If I change MINIE to PRB or REAL or MAXI accuracy will increase ?

 

[musketman]

I shoot the old style minie ball .58 caliber, I can hit a readers digest at 110 yards with it...

The minie ball is very accurate in the proper twist barrel, not so hot in slower ones...

 

The 66" twist will handle a very short bullet just fine, accuracy wise, however, I cannot say whether the short bullets will hold stability after they hit game. The Maxiballs in the .45, .50 and .54TC's 48" twist won't hold a straight path through a moose, so I woudn't think a 250 gr.REAL would in the .45. A 200 gr. might. Better yet might be the buffalo Bullet Co. 180gr. ball-et. They shoot well in my 60" twist .45, to the sights set for RB, as well as the 200gr. REAL bullet. The white, sticky lube that's on the ball-et worked fine as well. For the 200gr. REAL bullets, also accurate, I used Lyman's BP lube for BP ctg. guns & sized them to .451 in the lube sizer for easier lubing.- OK, I'm lazy. I've hand lubed thousands of bullets- the lube sizer is easier and the accuracy is the same. Alox lube doesn't mix well with BP fouling as it is designed for smokeless powder, the job it's doing being different than that required for BP.
: The Winchester 45-90's rate of twist was 60" in the model 86 AND the 85 single shot. It's 300gr. bullet was about the same length as the 250gr. REAL, but the accuracy was described as being poor. The 45-70 with 22" twist was a better killer in general and it's light, high vel load matched the 45-90's ballistics with improved killing power and accuracy. Incidently, the 300gr. 45-90's bsallistics were 1,584fps, factory BP load.
Daryl

 

[ntech]

Thanks for yours answer.
I will try patched round ball.
Regards

 

[vanstg]

Sebastian,
I've never shot minie bullets myself, so I have no first hand experience. But last weekend at the range, the shooter next to me was shooting a .58 cal rifle loaded with minie bullets. I have no idea about the rifling twist in his rifle. He was getting groups in the neighborhood of 8" at 100 yards. I think that's pretty good for a rifle with rudimentary sights.
Vanstg

 

[Myra lou]

I'm 'newguy' here.....Howdy from Texas......8" at 100yds won't do it in Skirmishing......we've go to hit fixed mounted clay birds at that distance.....I can hit milk jugs......I can't seem to get mine to tighen up either......john......

 

You might try the #575213OS (Old Syle). this is a slightly shortened minnie, weighting in the neighbourhood of 460gr. It was the original bullet for the Dragoon Pistol with shulder stock. In some Zouaves(63's)it does seemt oimprove accuracy. A lot of accuracy problems with minie balls is from faults in casting, which causes most innacurate shooting. The US government and English Gov't went to swaged minnies & RB's for that matter, to eliminate casting faults.
: There also are some new minnies on the market that might improve accuracy - perhaps someone else will chime in here wich what works for them.
: Patched round balls usually give very good accuracy in the repro Zouaves. The one I HAD really liked 100gr. 2F, .575 ball and .015 patch. Actually, any charge of powder worked well in it's 72" twist.
: At that time, in the 70's some people were going to 48" custom barrels for skirmish shooting as they were more accurate with minies.(as detailed in Lyman's old book)
Daryl

 

[Zonie]

Sebastian: As I read your post, you are shooting a .45 caliber Minie but you didn't say what the powder load you used was.
If we are talking about Minie style bullets, they are cast undersize and rely on the hollow cavity at the base to expand them into the rifleing grooves. Then, obturation expands the rest of the body into the grooves.
One problem with Minies is they typically don't like heavy powder charges.
The theory is that as the bullet is leaving the bore, the high gas pressure blows the bases thin skirt outward and deflects the bullet.
The .58 caliber Civil War guns which were designed to shoot the Minie was only loaded with about 65 grains of powder, and IMO part of the reason was to prevent this skirt blowout from happening.

IMO the 1/66 twist is really too slow for elongated bullets.

 

[ResearchPress]

Someone told me " .. the minie aren't accurate at all ..'

Depends what you're shooting them in I suppose. Here in the UK we shoot Enfields out to 600 yards. In a recent 200yd match I held about a 6" group, prone with a two point sling for support. Later this year we (Muzzle Loaders Association of Great Britain - www.mlagb.com) have an 800 yard watch with Enfields, which should be entertaining!

David

 

[RussB]

One problem with Minies is they typically don't like heavy powder charges.
The theory is that as the bullet is leaving the bore, the high gas pressure blows the bases thin skirt outward and deflects the bullet.
The .58 caliber Civil War guns which were designed to shoot the Minie was only loaded with about 65 grains of powder, and IMO part of the reason was to prevent this skirt blowout from happening.
IMO the 1/66 twist is really too slow for elongated bullets.

Zonie...It took me several years to get my 1861 Colt Musket to shoot minies. The reason was the same as you stated above. I was blowing the skirts!
I also went to FFFg, and pre measured every charge at 42.0gr. Then things started changing for the better. For all practical purposes the 575213PH is practically useless to me as it requires a very heavy load of FFg. (above 100gr) and with that 565gr bullet it is a handfull off the bench trying to work up loads.
The Colt, with a 1:72 twist loves a round ball and patch. It does not matter what the load...I've yet to blow a patch. Now, when I load minies, I make sure they have a thin skirt and a very moderate amount of powder. Things seem to work much better.
Russ
P.S. I see David from LRML is posting, we would all do well to listen to him. He knoweth what he sayeth!

 

I found with my old .58 Hawken, all of the Lyman minnie moulds shot well in the 60"(or 66")Bill Large barrel. I had to remove the knob of the plunger, then turn down the plug for a much thicker skirt. After doing that, out of 3 moulds that I bought and modified, I settled on the 575213OS as being the best at 480gr. weight. The reason was for a fast second shot using a paper ctg. for the powder charge. These worked very well and with 140gr. 2F, shot to the sights for the same load for round ball, out to 75 yds. They'd shoot into 1 1/2" at that range, 1/2" bigger than round ball groups & of course, kicked much more. I never got to shoot one into a moose, the RB dropping him on the spot with a double lung hit at 80yds. This was almost 25 years ago and the rifle is long gone to a different owner in Terrace,B.C.
: I polished the mould out with emery powder on minnie's on a screw until they cast at .578". This gave 1 thou clearance per side, cutting the accuracy to 1/2 of what it was with smaller, sloppy minnies. The .575611 heavy skirt bullet never did shoot well in that rifle, as I assumed the twist wasn't fast enough for the speeds I was pushing them at.
: At that time, I was mixing my own lube with vaseline and beeswax, Paul Mathews(& Sharps, I think) mix of 60% beeswax to 40% grease. this was soft enough to hand lube, yet wasn't too sticky on the bullet and wouldn't melt off inwarm weather. This lube allowed continuous shooting without having to wipe the bore. It was applied to the grooves only, the hollow base being empty.
Daryl