Minie Tumbling From Pedersoli 1861 Springfield

[Tyrone]

Went shooting over the weekend with my brother and he brought his Pedersoli 1861 Springfield.
Here's two pictures of his target with the minie 'tumbling' on three of the four shots in the upper left. The shot in the 7 ring at 2 o'clock is the only shot that didn't tumble. He's trying to figure out why the minies were/are doing this.
It's a .58 cal and he's shooting a .575 minie with a 60 gr. Pyrodex load. There was a 5-10 mph cross wind left to right. Any thoughts??

 

[bpd303]

Probably the skirt is not oburating enough to engage the rifling. What lead are the minie's made of? Too hard and that could be the problem. He could try increasing the powder charge 5gr at a time 60gr is a pretty light load.

 

[bob308]

what are the bullets cast from ? pure lead or wheel weights.is he using lube? how loose are the bullets when loaded?

 

[varsity07840]

First thing you should do is read this.

Duane
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/uploads/riviste/6dpmag7.pdf

 

[Zonie]

As the others have mentioned, if the Minie' was cast out of anything but pure, soft lead, it might not be expanding to engage the rifling grooves.

Another thing that might have caused the tumbling is the powder that was used.

If it was a new, recently opened bottle of Pyrodex it should not be the problem.

If it was an old container that had been opened a long time ago, the Pyrodex may have lost most of its power.

As you probably know, a 60 grain powder charge is about what was used to shoot a Minie'.
If the powder was good, it should have had enough pressure to expand the Minie's skirt into the rifling grooves.

On the Positive/negative side, the photo of the Minie' that went thru the paper sideways sure does prove that the old cock and bull comments that say, "the light weight rear of the bullet acts like the feathers on a arrow and keeps it from tumbling" is hooey.

 

[artmechanic]

Thanks for the link...I'll definitely refer to this when playing with the Kodiak

 

[hawkeye2]

Discounting lead that is too hard there is one other problem. A .575" mini is too small for a Pedersoli or for that matter almost all .58 caliber Italian mini rifles. Most seem to have a bore from .578" to over .580". Slug your bore and size the mini accordingly, .001" to no more than .002" under. If your mini is too small it will not expand to grip the rifling and will keyhole just like yours is doing.

 

[hawkeye2]

One other thing, lube is very important. Mini rifles have shallow rifling which will foul extremely fast and accuracy can go to pieces in as little as 2 shots. It will also cause keyholing. A lube that will keep the fouling soft is essential. I have found that it is only needed in the grease grooves and can give issues when placed in the base cavity.

 

[varsity07840]

Find a machinist who has a pin gauge set and have him measure your bore. Measuring a three groove barrel's slug is tricky.If he has a V anvil micrometer he can measure it.

Duane

 

[Grenadier1758]

Hawkeye, I think you have the right suggestions. The minie ball is too small for the bore.

 

[ZUG]

My Zouave likes .580 Minie's and I run them through a homemade nylon sizer with a nylon base plug to "round-out" the skirts .

 

[Pete G]

Add a little more powder.

 

[hawkeye2]

If they are sized and lubed you should be able to put 10 rounds in the 10 ring at 50 yards with 40 grains of 2f. 60 grains might be fine for hunting but it is far more than needed for punching paper out to 100 yards.

Zug, sounds like you have your act together. A plug that fits the base cavity to push them through the sizer is a good idea. I used to take the base plug out of the mold to do that before I started using a Lubrisizer.

 

[nkbj]

Which minie was being used has been left out of the discussion. Some have thick skirts, some thin. Some have very short skirts, some longer. They do not behave the same.

 

[Tyrone]

Thanks everyone for the info.
I know the minies are from pure lead because I cast them myself. I think Zonie might be correct about the Pyrodex because my brother used 2f Goex previously and had no tumbling. He thinks the Pyrodex he used is probably a couple of years old.

 

[mooman76]

I've never had problems with Pyrodex. New or old an some of mine is 20 years old.

 

[azmntman]

:metoo:

 

[nkbj]

As the others have mentioned, if the Minie' was cast out of anything but pure, soft lead, it might not be expanding to engage the rifling grooves.

Another thing that might have caused the tumbling is the powder that was used.

If it was a new, recently opened bottle of Pyrodex it should not be the problem.

If it was an old container that had been opened a long time ago, the Pyrodex may have lost most of its power.

As you probably know, a 60 grain powder charge is about what was used to shoot a Minie'.
If the powder was good, it should have had enough pressure to expand the Minie's skirt into the rifling grooves.

On the Positive/negative side, the photo of the Minie' that went thru the paper sideways sure does prove that the old cock and bull comments that say, "the light weight rear of the bullet acts like the feathers on a arrow and keeps it from tumbling" is hooey.

Well, it doesn't keep it from tumbling but the lightened weight hind end coupled with a rounded elongated front end does lend a minie stabilizing effects, as does the presence of grease grooves.
But it cannot prevent tumbling created by insufficient alignment and sufficiently unequal thrust when exiting the bore.

 

[stretchman25]

I slugged the bore in an Armi Sport 1861 Springfield and a Armi Sport Zouave. They both had .584 bores. I had the same problems until I custom ordered a Rapine mold and a .583 sizing die. Don't know who to recommend since Rapine molds is no longer around. Minie balls can be very frustrating until you get the right size.

 

[varsity07840]

I slugged the bore in an Armi Sport 1861 Springfield and a Armi Sport Zouave. They both had .584 bores. I had the same problems until I custom ordered a Rapine mold and a .583 sizing die. Don't know who to recommend since Rapine molds is no longer around. Minie balls can be very frustrating until you get the right size.

Moose Moulds. They make two styles of Minie in .582. I would expect they'd be around .583 out of the mould.

Duane