Minimum Barrel Length for a muzzleloader

[Razor62]

Does anyone know if there's a minimum barrel length statute on the books for muzzleloading rifles? I know that conventional firearms minimums are 16" for a rifle and 18" for shotguns but I can't find anything on muzzleloaders.
Federal law does exempt "Antique Weapons" from many of the "Firearm" regs.
I've got a .50 cal Traditions pistol with a 14" barrell which I'd like to convert to a short rifle by making a shoulder stock for hunting in RI but I don't know if I'd be legal.

 

[sc45-70]

There is no federal law regarding barrel length on a muzzle loader, but your state may require a certain length barrel for hunting.

SC45-70

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Not just forr hunting. Some states have laws about barrel length etc just to be owned or registered. Hadd a muzzleloader with a 10 inch barrel and a rifle stock. One game warden questioned whether it was legal to even own. Despite my assurances, he made a phone call and was told it was good. Hoever we never settled the question of whether the barrel made it a pistol or the butt stock made it a rifle for purposes of our special urban region hunting seasons. muzzleloader rifles and shotguns are legal. Muzzleloader pistols are not.

 

[Razor62]

Thank you gentlemen. I inquired with the local wardens and was told that it wasn't a question for them but rather for the state. However I couldn't find any mention of muzzleloading minimum barrel length anywhere on RI's books.
Thinking that I'll just go ahead with the project and let the lawyers settle it if I ever run into trouble. :wink:

 

[Rifleman1776]

There is no federal law regarding barrel length on a muzzle loader, but your state may require a certain length barrel for hunting.

SC45-70

Unfortunately many (most?) law enforcement officers, game wardens included, are not well educated regarding muzzle loaders. To compensate, many will just say "no" or "it's illegal". I once played a game with Arkansas game wardens for my own amusement. When I met one I would ask if it was legal to hunt turkeys with a Brown Bess. Most would just stare at me for a second then say "no". They were universally clueless. And all were wrong.

 

[Grumpa]

Under federal law, a pistol with a shoulder stock attached becomes a short rifle. And, since the legal cloptrap associated with such "restricted" weapons does not apply to muzzleloaders, I would have taken it hunting. :idunno:

 

[zimmerstutzen]

At one time perhaps 25 years ago, PA had a minimum length for shotgun barrels, muzzle loader or not. The length was a few inches longer than the federal minimum. It also applied only to hunting guns.

 

[Grumpa]

Back then, I had a game warden comment on the shortness of my shotgun barrel (18" - riot gun).
I recall the PA minimum was 24". I told him under PA law, it was considered a pistol (That's what the spokesperson at the Game Commission told me), and I had the pistol license for it.

"Oh," he said, "We're not really concerned about that anyway." He was actually pretty nice about the whole thing, not confrontational. (Of course, no guarantee that the next guy would be the same.) :grin:

 

[swathdiver]

It's a good idea to keep a copy of the state regulations on your person when out hunting with antique firearms.

 

[Stumpkiller]

It would be legal to deer hunt with in NY IF you had a pistol permit.

As far as hunting regulations it will depend on the state and what if any specialty season you are in.

NY, for example, states in the general regulations that a muzzleloader must be loaded from the bore with a minimum caliber of .44.

But in Big Game - Muzzleloading:

The legal firearm for this season is a muzzleloading rifle or pistol (including smoothbore muzzleloaders) loaded through the muzzle, shooting a single projectile and having a bore of .44 inches or larger. Double-barreled muzzleloaders and percussion cap revolvers are not legal during the special muzzleloading season. If you hunt with a single-shot muzzleloading pistol, you must have a New York State Pistol License.

A "rifle" has a minimum 16" barrel while a "pistol" has a maximum 16" barrel. So, if you're carrying a 14" barrel "rifle" you'd better check with your state regulations as it may be a pistol in the eyes of the game wardens. Notwithstanding that the Feds don't recognize a muzzleloader as a problem with a shoulder stock on a firearm of certain minimal overall length or minimal barrel. The game officers will nail you for the State hunting regulations violated. Maybe or maybe not the Federal firearms laws.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

In my state, there is a minimum load for a rifle, and a minimum load for a pistol, when hunting deer with a muzzleloader....not minimum sizes.

Your idea would raise an interesting question....IF a muzzleloading pistol that need a minimum of 40 grains of black powder when hunting deer has a shoulder stock, does it then become a muzzleloading rifle, and then need the minimum 60 grains of powder when hunting deer?

I've never heard of a DNR officer pulling a charge on a ML to verify IF the proper charge were present , but they do have a list of handguns (revolvers) that will not hold a ball plus the minimum charge, and those that do. So IF a person had one of the "approved" revolvers and added a shoulder stock as some of them do, and it wouldn't hold 60 grains...???

Anyway, in your case, you should check your local regs, but I predict you'd be fine.

LD

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Yep. In pa there are areas where muzzle loading pistols are not legal for deer. But there is nothing set forth to differentiate a short barreled rifle from a pistol. Or a smoothbore pistol from a shotgun with pumpkin ball.

 

[nkbj]

Sounds like a fella could have a pretty complicated day wading brush with one of those side by sides with the second set of shorty barrels.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Yep. In pa there are areas where muzzle loading pistols are not legal for deer

Well that's interesting too....so I wonder if a person affixed a stock to a pistol in PA and went into one of those areas...would it then be a "rifle"? Then there is the Howdah pistol from Pedersoli which can be fitted with an optional stock...not a flinter so for some of the deer hunting in PA it would still be a "no no", but for regular deer season???

LD

 

[robinsroost]

Indiana states that muzzle loading pistols must be .50 caliber or larger, have a barrel at least 12" long and load from the muzzle. Cap and ball revolvers are not legal. Rifles must be .45 caliber or larger. :wink:

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The Pedersoli "bounty" pistol is a 16" barreled flinter as large as .50... :shocked2:

I wonder if a stock could be fashioned to attach to the grip.

NOW THAT would make for an interesting scene in a movie, have a Bounty restocked for a full length wooden stock, and have an attachable shoulder stock, then have some character in an 18th century movie assemble it and shoot it at his foe....a la Lee Van Cleef in one of the Spagetti Westerns....only set in the heyday of the flinters...


LD

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I have the 1855 Springfield pistol/ carbine with the detacheable shoulder stock. IIRC the barrel is 12 inches. However, I also have a Zouave barrel made by the same maker, ZOLI, which appears to be the same exterior barrel contour. I can add a 18 inch barrel to the mix.

 

[nhmoose]

I would look up my states regulations for hunting with ML. That is what you must comply with.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Unfortunately, many states, like Pennsylvania, do not ser forth any definition or criteria for what constitutes a pistol or rifle. Folks living in states that have definitions or minimum barrel lengths may find them in game regulations, game laws, or even in their criminal codes.

 

[Archer 756]

:surrender: Stumpkiller, just a note that in our wonderful NY one is not allowed to us to hunt with any black powder hand gun.