Minimum elk charge for .58PRB?

[Chris Nolin]

I'll be headed to the range next weekend to start working up my elk load for next month. I just got my Pedersoli RMH back from Bob Hoyt, rebored to .58cal. It has a 32in barrel, and my maximum range limit will be 100yds. I'll be shooting .570 round ball, only. I don't want to start too low on the powder charge since my shoulder will only last so long. Advice on where to start, charge-wise considering all factors, is appreciated!

 

[Alden]

85 grains of FFg.

 

[Chris Nolin]

Wow, I'm glad I asked! Much different than my .50--I probably would've started WAY too low! Thanks!

 

[nwtradegun]

2f 100 gr., 3f swiss 85-90 gr.

 

[BrownBear]

2f 100 gr., 3f swiss 85-90 gr.

Agreed. I haven't dinked any elk with a 58, but I shoot the caliber a lot. For 100 yard shooting that approximate charge from a 32" barrel should result in a trajectory of about 1" high at 50, dead on at 75, and 4-5" low at 100. Killing power should be fine. You'd have to go up to around 120 grains of 2f to flatten the trajectory appreciably, and I'm here to tell you that charge will come back at you some, even in a RMH.

My prize 58 is a GRRW Hawken with a 36" barrel tapered from 1 1/8" at the breech to 1" at the muzzle. At 12 pounds it isn't even uncomfortable with 140 grains of 2f, but the tradeoff is that it's a real chunk to carry in the hills all day. But as my assorted rifles go down in the weight, the charges shrink have to right along with them.

If I was to "design" the perfect 58, I'd have to take a hard look at just what you've done. Less weight that the GRRW, but still enough barrel for steadiness and good sighting radius.

 

[laufer]

.58 hawken with 90+grains of powder on a shoulder usually requires only a single shot and a sinlge shoulder, and you should be done. :wink:
(try anchoring your butt plate on your arm and into your armpit, the way it was intended to be, you can shoot that way all day with heavy charges.)

 

[Herb]

Here is info on loads for .58 elk hunting. The velocities in a 36" barrel are probably what I will get in my 32" .58 flintlock. Just shot 90 grains of Goex 2F and got 1529 fps, 100 grains of Olde Eynsford 1 1/2F gave 1611 fps. See my ".58 halfstock flint plains rifle" in the builders forum. Don't shoot an elk in the neck or hit heavy bones, unless you use 130 grains of Goex 3F as Donald (1895 Man) did in the hunting article. (You can hit Control and + on your keyboard to enlarge the target photos so you can read them).
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showpost.php?post/783698/

 

[Kapow]

Herb, you are a fricken legend! Hope I am still pumping them out at your age (no offence). How does that RMH feel now with less weight in the barrel? I would shoot 120gn, you won't even feel it in the bush and it won't kill you, no scope to worry about coming back at you.

 

[Herb]

G'day. I have only had time to shoot the two groups I posted. I was surprised to find that rifle weighed only 9 3/4 pounds, about the same as my 1" x 32" .54 caplock Hawkens. My Bridger with an 1 1/8 x 31" barrel weighed 11 pounds on the same scale. I'll do some more testing and show the results. Heavy charges are no problem from the bench, but even though I will be hunting in big, open sagebrush country I may want lighter charges for less recoil shooting off-hand. Right now I am building another Hawken for a Ute Indian friend to use on his elk hunt in late October, just started it this morning and have the barrel inletted and breech plug fitted and draw filed.

 

[Chris Nolin]

Yes, the RMH has lost quite a noticeable amount of weight. I should have weighed it before and after the rebore, but didn't. It's much more comfortable to carry around now than it was as a .50cal!

I did not know that the stocks on these traditional weapons were designed to fit against the high upper arm. I was shooting with the stock inside the shoulder, the way they taught me in basic training. Problem is, this puts the sharp top portion of the curved buttplate right against the collarbone. So now, I'm looking forward to shooting this rifle the way it was designed to be shot! Thanks, laufer, for setting me straight. Hopefully that will allow me to shoot enough at the range to get it sighted properly and with the best load.

 

[BrownBear]

So now, I'm looking forward to shooting this rifle the way it was designed to be shot! .... Hopefully that will allow me to shoot enough at the range to get it sighted properly and with the best load.

You'll be pleasantly surprised. Especially offhand, a guy can shoot stiff charges all day and come away none the worse for wear. So comfortable in fact, that you may be tempted to venture above 100 grains. So be it, if you want a little flatter trajectory, but bench time isn't near as much fun up there. But once again, no discomfort offhand.

Forgot to mention that I played around a lot with 58 cal 80 grain (2f) charges, and found the trajectory waaaay too loopy, even with a 75 yard sight in. Shots had to be 2-3" high at 50 in order to hit right on at 75 hards, then were 6-8" low at 100. Not what I'd recommend for anyone shooting that far.

 

[Alden]

Just a reminder...

Remember the question was where to START working up loads for a 100 yard-or-less shot, not what one would usually use, otherwise recommend, etc.

 

[Chris Nolin]

True. I'm planning to start at 85gr, as you recommended. It is nice to hear where others have settled for an elk load with this caliber, too. Part of the equation is trajectory, right? But the other part is effect-on-target. I want to make sure I settle on a load that will have enough energy at 100yds to cleanly take an elk. Last night I checked the Lyman guide and was surprised to see that a .570RB retains 600+ft-lbs energy at 100 yds with only 85gr 2f Goex (perhaps even more at 10K ft elevation.) Is 600ft-lbs enough? I have no idea. Sounds like we have at least a few experienced elk hunters who have used a .58PRB, and they're saying 100-120gr is probably where I'll want to end up. Good stuff!

 

[Alden]

Remember that military loads were at least in that ballpark, probably quite a bit more earlier.

Placement is important as you know and will hear, however, I'm also a little surprised you're going with roundball, not that there's anything wrong with that, especially at short range...

 

[Chris Nolin]

What were the military loads for a .58?

I told Mr. Hoyt I wanted a roundball shooter when he did the rebore. He made it 1:60 twist with deep, semi-rounded rifling. Yeah, I don't know what it is that has me excited about taking an elk with a roundball. I have another rifle that shoots .50 conicals well, and I'm sure a 385gr piece of lead from that gun would do the job more certainly than a 277gr piece of lead from this "new" one. I've read about the ballistics-chart-defying killing power of the roundball, so I feel confident using it. I guess I just like the history and nostalgia of it, in the end.

 

[BrownBear]

I guess I just like the history and nostalgia of it, in the end.

You're in good company in this crowd! :thumbsup:

 

[harleysboss]

Starting in the 85grn range is right on but I would plan on venturing into the 90-110 grn range for an elk load. I will be using my TVM early virginia 58 loaded 110grn ffg goex, .570 ball and .018 patch. I was shooting 100grn loads and the rifle shot fine groups but then I read a post by roundball and he said his 58 really had a noticeable crack when he went to 110grns. I tried it and my groups really tightened up. Try it you might like it. Elk are tough critters as you probably already know.

 

[laufer]

there is a shooting club in fort lupton, by the old lancaster's fort, they shoot well and know how to help with muzzleloading questions. http://www.spvhs.org/imagedocuments/FLMLC 2014 CALENDAR.pdf

also, even closer, in masonville you have a buckskinning group that shoots all the time, they can help too. it gets much easier to shoot with to shoot with toher muzzleloader shooter and ask them questions, than as a beginer to be looked upon liek a strange animal and be asked tons of questions at the regular range, at least from my experience.
good luck!

 

[Hellgate]

When working up a load for any of my 4 rifles in .58 cal I put a sand bag between my shoulder and the gun butt. That way I do not develop a flinch. You can shoot until you run out of powder or lead. When shooting at game you will not notice the recoil (especially with a PRB). I'd start at 80grs and go up to 120 in either FF or FFF. Check a trajectory chart and sight in high at 50 yds so you will be right on at 100. The one elk I have killed using a Musketoon loaded with 90grs FFg Goex under a 460gr Lyman 575213-OS minie ball sighted to hit 5" high@50yds and on zero @100. The minie went through both shoulder blades, clipped the spine and sailed off into the woods. The elk went no where. It was dumb luck.

 

[Roguedog]

I had Bobby bore out m7 old Renegade .54 to a .58. It shoots very well. I settled on 110 grains of 2F black and surprisingly, the recoil is not too bad, though I understand recoil is subjective. I love the .58 cal! Get one of those big balls moving and it's hard to stop them.

Jeff