Minnie ball accuracy?

[yakipreacher]

Hi
I've had trouble gaining consistent accuracy from minie balls. I have both the lee improved version and the older pointed version.
Curious if there is something that someone would recommend to gain said accuracy.

 

[rafterob]

Need to know what rifle you are shooting them out of.

 

[bigted]

Info needed;

... rifle
... rate of twist
... bullet alloy
... lube used
... weight consistency of bullets

With this info these guys can give you the next step for success.

 

[Zonie]

yakipreacher:

We also need to know what the powder load your using was.

Minie' balls were originally used with a powder load of about 60 grains.
This might seem to be "light" but there was a good reason for it. Powder loads larger than that can "blow the skirt" (thin material at the base) of the bullet out as it leaves the muzzle. If this happens, the deformed bullet skirt can cause it to fly in unpredictable directions and it will not hit the point of aim.

Another issue is the amount of clearance between the bore and the outside of the bullet. They shoot most accuretly if the clearance is .003 or less. That's a pretty snug fit and can be pretty hard to load in a fouled bore.

The original Minie' bullet to bore fit could be all over the map and it was usually rather loose so accuracy suffered and for the most part the military didn't care. They were mainly interested in sending large amounts of lead toward the enemy. Not target accuracy.

 

[Melnic]

Maybe even post what kind of accuracy you are getting now? Maybe be more descriptive about it. The more info you give, the more these guys can help.
If you are molding your own, do you know the lead hardness of what you are molding from? If purchased mention that.
If you have a micrometer, measure the diameter of the minies you have. If possible, measure your bore.
The easiest method I had for measuring my enfield 1853 repro and my original sprinfield 1863 was to take the biggest minie I had (I had some .585 I purchased) and then insert, then twist and pull out. My Springfield was .581 and the Enfield was .578 I ran a drywall screw into the top of it so I could pull it out easy. (you may have to scrape off some lead from the grooves at the muzzle when done)
Good luck

 

[Trot]

First you have to know your exact bore size, not what the manufacturer states as bore size but the actual measured bore size. There is a large variation even in the same model from the same manufacturer. Then you need a minie no more than .002 under your measured bore size. Also your minies have to me made from pure lead, no wheel weights or alloy, just pure lead. Once you have this down, then it is time to experiment with powder load and bullet lubes.

 

[yakipreacher]

Ok... my normal load for them is 65 gr FF in triple 7. I have been shooting from 50 and 54 cal thompsons, and occasionally investarms. I bought them originally to use in firelapping (I posted such in another thread). But... most of the civil war was fought with them and I keep trying to make them work for hunting. My patch and ball is so much more accurate at this point that I wouldn't consider it. I'll have to measure out the bore size... they pretty much "just fit". You do have to smack them in, but not hard at all. It really seems like they should be more accurate with the rear skirt, not less than a ball. I have a couple of originals, that I'd like to set up with these, an enfield and a springfield.... but am waiting to figure it out in rifles that I can't tear up.

 

[yakipreacher]

Oh... twist rates. That standard thompson 1:48 for most of them. I also have 1:60 in one of them. It doesn't seem to matter much with them though. I had read somewhere that the field load for the civil war was 65 grains of FF so I have copied that. Figured that was about the most field tested and settled load in history!

 

[Zonie]

Triple 7 is known for being noticeably more powerful than real black powder or Pyrodex so, in my opinion, you are over-loading your rifled musket.

Try backing off your Triple 7 powder load to 50 or 55 grains and check the accuracy. It should improve. If it doesn't, at least you'll know the load isn't the problem.

As a side note: Triple 7 also burns hotter and people who have used it for shooting patched roundballs have often seen signs of the patch burning thru.
If your using it for your roundball loads, try to find some of the patches you shot. If they look like they are being burned where the ball met the bore, switch to real black powder or Pyrodex.

Speaking of Pyrodex, it uses the same Potassium Perchlorate that Triple 7 uses but it contains sulfur. The presence of sulfur in the fouling seems to make rusting issues worse so give your gun a real good cleaning when your done shooting.

 

[Trot]

Do the minie balls hit nose first or do they keyhole? If you can retrieve any fired ones you may be able to see if the skirt is intact, or if the rifling is engaging well.

 

[Rat]

It can be frustrating to get Minnie's to shoot well....and usually involves trying several different molds, casting bullets of different sizes, weights, and shapes. Then variations in lube...and how much lube to use.

I have had bad luck using 777. Just my experience.

If you are interested in shooting a slug, and not so much dedicated to shooting a minnie, try the REAL bullets. They shoot best, and very accurately in my .58 caliber rifles, which, as you know, was the caliber most used in the Civil War, and not .50's or .54's. It may be more worthwhile to obtain a .58 calibre minnie rifle, and put one's time an effort into that. There may not be a good variety of minnie balls for the .50" and .54". ??? The choice in .58" is very good.

Also, the Hornady "PA" 240 grain slug shoots insanely accurately out of my .50 calibre Plains Pistol, so that may be an option.

 

[Stantheman86]

Every rifle is different.....my .54 Euroarms Mississippi rifle , (supposedly a round ball bore) hits a 12x12" steel target at 200 yards all day long and shoots fist size groups at 200 also, ragged holes at 100.....with sized .534 Lyman Minies with pure Beeswax lube , 60 gr Goex ffg.

They glide right down the bore, can shoot 50 without any need to clean.

 

[Eterry]

I have three 58 cal muskets and I've found minies shoot best when sized pretty snug to the bore, lubed grooves and base, and use a lot of pressure (poundage) on the range rod when seating. Not pounding, slamming, or such, just a hard push on the rod once the minie reaches the powder. My Lee 500 grain mine cast a .575, but I "beagled" it with receipt paper to get a .578 minie...much more accurate. My pet load is the 500gr Lee over 60grs fffg in my 58 cal Buffalo Hunter. Shoots 3 moa at 100 yards, made a clean kill on a huge buck last year.
I've shot 25 in one sitting before I ran out of light...but that was with my musketoon.

In my opinion deep rifling isn't conducive to accuracy with minies...they need a shallow rifling for the hollow base to engage.
Oh yea...you must use soft lead for minies or the hard lead wont engage the rifling.

 

[Newtire]

I get the best accuracy using a Minie that just fits the bore. I also found one Remington Contract Repro shot great and a new one I traded for got terrible accuracy. Turns out someone had bedded the first one! After acra-glassing the other one, the accuracy problem went away. Another thing, even though they were both made by Antonio Solid, one's bore fit a .575" Minie and the other likes a .580". The rifling twist seemed to me was like 1-70" twist. I'll double check that. I know that some weretwisted quite slow. The Minie doesn't follow the same rules as a solid slug conical it seems.

 

[Eterry]

I get the best accuracy using a Minie that just fits the bore. I also found one Remington Contract Repro shot great and a new one I traded for got terrible accuracy. Turns out someone had bedded the first one! After acra-glassing the other one, the accuracy problem went away. Another thing, even though they were both made by Antonio Solid, one's bore fit a .575" Minie and the other likes a .580". The rifling twist seemed to me was like 1-70" twist. I'll double check that. I know that some weretwisted quite slow. The Minie doesn't follow the same rules as a solid slug conical it seems.

Newtire, where on the barrel channel was it glassed? I have a Remington repro aka Zouave, and it doesn't group like I want.
Thanks

 

[Rat]

I have three 58 cal muskets and I've found minies shoot best when sized pretty snug to the bore, lubed grooves and base, and use a lot of pressure (poundage) on the range rod when seating. Not pounding, slamming, or such, just a hard push on the rod once the minie reaches the powder. My Lee 500 grain mine cast a .575, but I "beagled" it with receipt paper to get a .578 minie...much more accurate. My pet load is the 500gr Lee over 60grs fffg in my 58 cal Buffalo Hunter. Shoots 3 moa at 100 yards, made a clean kill on a huge buck last year.
I've shot 25 in one sitting before I ran out of light...but that was with my musketoon.

In my opinion deep rifling isn't conducive to accuracy with minies...they need a shallow rifling for the hollow base to engage.
Oh yea...you must use soft lead for minies or the hard lead wont engage the rifling.

I tried to paper patch a .575 minnie, (475 grain I think, might have been the standard 500 grainer) it sure fit perfectly in the bore, (my 1861 is right at .580") and it shed the paper right after leaving the muzzle, paper in perfect condition, etc., but still wouldn't shoot good. Didn't tumble or anything, but accuracy wasn't "good".

 

[yakipreacher]

I tried to paper patch a .575 minnie, (475 grain I think, might have been the standard 500 grainer) it sure fit perfectly in the bore, (my 1861 is right at .580") and it shed the paper right after leaving the muzzle, paper in perfect condition, etc., but still wouldn't shoot good. Didn't tumble or anything, but accuracy wasn't "good".

This is a good description of where I'm at with the minies.... It doesn't tumble, fly off into space or anything, just way too big a circle for my liking. If I back off the the load to 55gr as advised above, will I have any humane issues for shooting things? Generally deer but possibly elk in our area. When I hit something, I want it to go down hard, so that it doesn't suffer. ie quick and clean.

 

[yakipreacher]

I tried to paper patch a .575 minnie, (475 grain I think, might have been the standard 500 grainer) it sure fit perfectly in the bore, (my 1861 is right at .580") and it shed the paper right after leaving the muzzle, paper in perfect condition, etc., but still wouldn't shoot good. Didn't tumble or anything, but accuracy wasn't "good".

Doesn't a patch interfere with the minie's ability to expand out to fit the bore?

 

[yakipreacher]

It can be frustrating to get Minnie's to shoot well....and usually involves trying several different molds, casting bullets of different sizes, weights, and shapes. Then variations in lube...and how much lube to use.

I have had bad luck using 777. Just my experience.

If you are interested in shooting a slug, and not so much dedicated to shooting a minnie, try the REAL bullets. They shoot best, and very accurately in my .58 caliber rifles, which, as you know, was the caliber most used in the Civil War, and not .50's or .54's. It may be more worthwhile to obtain a .58 calibre minnie rifle, and put one's time an effort into that. There may not be a good variety of minnie balls for the .50" and .54". ??? The choice in .58" is very good.

Also, the Hornady "PA" 240 grain slug shoots insanely accurately out of my .50 calibre Plains Pistol, so that may be an option.

Is there a corresponding mold for these? I like to cast my blackpowder bullits.

 

[Rat]

This is a good description of where I'm at with the minies.... It doesn't tumble, fly off into space or anything, just way too big a circle for my liking. If I back off the the load to 55gr as advised above, will I have any humane issues for shooting things? Generally deer but possibly elk in our area. When I hit something, I want it to go down hard, so that it doesn't suffer. ie quick and clean.

Many will argue that 55 grains will kill an elk, and that the 60 grain service load used to shoot through horses, but I would not feel comfortable shooting an elk with a 55 grain load.