Misfire issue

[rwsjr]

I need a little advice for my lyman 54 Cal GBR.

I continue to have way too many misfires. I even changed the nipple with a 6-.75mm Ampco bronze from Track of the wolf. I also made sure the gun was real clean. I noticed that the hole on the nipple is small...should I drill it out a tad? I'm using #11 CCI caps, should I try another?

Even though I shoot the bullseye out at 50 yds, (groups within 2") I'm worried about taking this gun hunting.

 

[rabjr]

I don't know much about these but I think they have a pattern breech? Guys usually use a smaller brush to clean that chamber and pipe cleaners help cleaning the chamber under the nipple. Are you using pyrodex or black powder?

Try this, load the gun then take the nipple off and see if you see powder in the channel under the nipple.

When I hunted with a caplock I always took off the nipple after loading and dribbled in 3F powder to fill the chamber. So even a weak cap will set it off. I never had one fail while hunting in all kinds of weather.

 

[JJB22]

I don't know much about these but I think they have a pattern breech? Guys usually use a smaller brush to clean that chamber and pipe cleaners help cleaning the chamber under the nipple. Are you using pyrodex or black powder?

Try this, load the gun then take the nipple off and see if you see powder in the channel under the nipple.

When I hunted with a caplock I always took off the nipple after loading and dribbled in 3F powder to fill the chamber. So even a weak cap will set it off. I never had one fail while hunting in all kinds of weather.

You beat me to it. Taking a look if the powder is coming up into the drum is a good diagnosis tool. :bow:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

There are still some unanswered questions that need answered prior to making a good guess as to the cause of your problem. For instance, we need to know what you consider "clean", and how much oil you use to store the rifle, and whether or not the muzzle is pointed down during storage. Also, do you pull a dry patch to get rid of the excess oil prior to your first load for the day, or do you use some alcohol to dry-out the bore prior to loading?

Something is definitely not working correctly for some reason. Wish that I were there to watch you operate the rifle to see it and you in person. It's hard to correctly diagnose the problem from here. What type of powder? Is it real black powder or a sub? All sorts of unanswered questions.......

Have you tried magnum caps? And no, you shouldn't have to drill-out the nipples oriface, thus ruining the nipple!

Dave

 

[BrownBear]

I've got a long history with misfires on GPR's, and they all involved either Lyman nipples with CCI caps or Pyrodex. I'm more of a fixer than a complainer, mostly because living so far from sources I have to make things work or quit. Not being a quitter......

I need to get you to define "misfire" a little closer. With the Lyman nipples and CCI caps, the caps would often fail to go off. It turns out the caps weren't seating all the way down. Short solution was to press down hard on the hammer to seat the caps. Once I got rid of the Lyman nipples that issue was solved. They worked fine with Remington caps though, so that was another potential solution. I'd guess that your replacement nipples would have fixed the issue with CCI, but if you're still getting cap failures, try either using a firm press on the hammer to seat the caps better and try Remington caps.

If you're getting pop and no bang, that's the Pyrodex. I'd get half a dozen or so reliable gangs, then a few that were slow to ignite, and finally no bang after the pop. Using a nipple pick after the first 3 or 4 shots with pyrodex solved it, but even better was to change nipples and clean the flame channel several times in long range sessions. Guys turn their noses as those little Allen head cleanout screws, but I loved them.

I think it's important to stick to it and problem solve with the gear and components you have, just so you know how to beat the problems if they occur. I managed to get a supply of black powder, and I've never had a misfire since. Period. But on my personal list of potential "mishaps," my source of real black could dry up at any time. I'm glad I know how to make the pyrodex work now, even if I'd rather not use it!

 

[rwsjr]

Sorry folks....I forgot to mention the powder... its Prodex. Why....cause I can't find black powder, it has something to do with NYS law.

As for cleaning, I use bore cleaner and wire brushes that match the Bore and chamber. I swab the barrel with a mop, patches, and pipe cleaners. When they come out clean. I use Remington gun oil. After I coat the barrel I leave the barrel vertical with the muzzle down for a couple days. Then I reassemble the rifle and store it in a case under my bed. I don't know but may be using too much oil. That said, I usually start having the problem after a couple shots.

I like FF powder idea!

 

[sqqy14]

A simple fix that's worked for me is after you pour your powder measure down the bore, give the gun a rap with the heel of your hand opposite the nipple. This insures you get some powder into the nipple channel.
Bob

 

[rabjr]

Just a side note to oversized nipples, I ran into this at the range once with a new gun, first pull of the trigger I would get a "clack", recock, then a "boom". I realized the first try was seating the cap and the then it was set to go. Well obviously thats no good in a hunting situation. My solution was using a honing stone for knives and oil and I would twist the nipple by hand on the stone. Holding it at the right angle. I would try seating a cap every so often and it took about an hour or two but I got it to where the caps I used (RWS)fit perfectly and did not fall off. I never had another cap fail to go off after that.

 

[zrifleman]

Drilling out the nipple is not a good idea. I use a platinum lined nipple in my Gibbs rifle that has a .025 dia hole and doesn't missfire or hang fire. The hole in a standard Lyman nipple is much larger. Some thing is wrong with your loading and cleaning procedure. #11 CCI caps aren't a problem in either standard or magnum for most BP shooters. Pyrodex should ignite easily but 777 needs a 209 shotgun primer for consistant ignition as do some other substitute BP's. As for purchasing BP----order it online and have it shipped to your door step. It will probably cost less than buying it in a sporting goods store.

 

[necchi]

1st.
Are the caps going off, and not igniting the charge?
OR
Is the hammer dropping with no sound of the cap going off?
The differance IS a big deal, what's happening?

 

[rwsjr]

The caps go off, but don't always ignite the powder. I put a second on an it usually works. I did notice the hole on the new nipple is much smaller than the orginal.

 

[rabjr]

The caps go off, but don't always ignite the powder. I put a second on an it usually works. I did notice the hole on the new nipple is much smaller than the orginal.

I would put the original nipple back in and try it out at the range, see how you do. If you still get as many misfires.

 

[J.D.]

Are you using Pyrodex pellets, or loose powder?

 

[rawhide]

ok on my cva if I use oil I get missfires. I lube my gun with bore butter. works good. also try to pick the nipple out between shots. this could help. how much preshure are you putting on the ball when you seat it. I found with pyrodex it likes light preshure. try it and see if it works

 

[rafterob]

I think you should go to the bucket of hot soapy water cleaning method. The flushing action assures the powder chamber and flash chamber are cleaned well.Remember to swab the oil out of the barrel with a couple of dry patches and then fire off a cap or two before loading and firing your rifle. Be careful if you are swabbing in between shots, this is often a cause for misfires in guns with the chambered breeches.

 

[rwsjr]

When I clean it I use a bucket full of soapy water. I also flush with fresh water, in addition to what I wrote above. We have two 54 Cals...a Lyman GBR and a Cabela's Kit (my sons). We only have the issue with my Lyman GBR. The other NEVER misfires.

The misfiring starts after a few shots, so I don't think it has anything to do with cleaning. Heck we clean the two rifles exactly the same,

I switched from the original nipple cause it misfired. :surrender:

 

[BrownBear]

Interesting! They're basically the same rifle out of the same factory. But as always, each gun is an individual. And I love a good mystery!

You could probably beat it by picking the nipple every time you shoot. That's not an issue unless you lose the pick on a hunt!

Especially knowing that you're shooting a Cabelas alongside, I'm starting to wonder if the GPR isn't the newer gun. I ask, because with my GPRs, Pyrodex "issues" kind of abated as the rifle broke in. I can't guess why, but it happened. Funny thing, my wife's Deerstalker with exactly the same breech can digest Pyrodex all day long without a misfire. Go figure!

I'd try giving the side opposite the lock a good slap before seating the ball like someone suggested already, just to be sure to settle the powder into the flame channel. That should help a lot along with picking the nipple, but it's not the ultimate solution.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

The issues are the flash channel between the nipple and powder chamber combined with Pyrodex RS. That is a bad mix. T/C and Investarms guns have a small diameter flash channel and Pyro RS has very large kernels which won't flow into the small channel even when clean. If you can't get real black I would suggest you try Pyrodex "P" since it has a much smaller kernel size and will flow in under the nipple. As to the nipple itself, the small flash hole in Ampco nipples is a design feature which works fine and I would not change it. It is intended to reduce blow back through the nipple hole and that it does.

 

[ebiggs1]

There is just something we are missing here. I shoot Pyrodex in my TCs and Lyman all the time and have no problems. I can’t remember when I had a miss-fire in either.
I use CCI and Remington caps without notice. I never shoot real black in my cap guns because I want to save it for the flintlocks.
I will say I don’t like Lyman nipples but you changed it.
Do you swab between shots? Possibly pushing fouling into the patent breech? If so, stop swabbing, to see if that is it.

 

[BrownBear]

The issues are the flash channel between the nipple and powder chamber combined with Pyrodex RS. That is a bad mix. T/C and Investarms guns have a small diameter flash channel and Pyro RS has very large kernels which won't flow into the small channel even when clean.

You raise a good point. I'd missed that he's using RS. I had a terrible time with it in my GPRs, and a switch to P greatly improved the situation. Still had to pick the nipple every 3 or 4 shots, but even if I didn't I could usually go at least 6 shots before a slight delay in ignition was noticeable.