Misfires? Can I use BP behind Pyrodex?

[Jayhem]

So I have an Investarms .45cal Hawken Percussion and have been plauged by misfires, both on the range and in the field (missed 2 deer in 5 years from misfires!)

I use Pyrodex RS powder, from it's original container and never hunt with powder that is over 2 years old. I use Remington #11 caps.

I clean my barrel with good old soapy water and flush out the breech very well, let it dry and then oil the bore and run a pipe cleaner with light gun oil through the flash channel to keep away rust before storing.

Before loading up to fire I run several dry patches down the bore and clean out he flash channel and nipple with dry worms/pipe cleaners.

After doing some research on here I have come up with 3 likely causes of my misfires

1. I do not store my rifle muzzle down after oiling which apparently causes oil to build up in the breech which is hard to clean out without hot soapy water.

2. Pyrodex RS is harder to ignite than BP and since it has larger grain size it doesn't flow into the fire channel as well as BP or Pyrodex P

3. The Nipple I was using was worn out and shows signs of erosion. I didn't realize this was bad till I started reading on here.



So I'm open for some advice and have a question.

Since part of my problem is the Pyrodex RS but BP is hard to find, if I were to secure a lb of black and were to drop, say 10 grains of black FFFg down the barrel first when loading and then the rest of my Pyrodex charge, would this be ok? My hope is it would allow some powder to flow into the fire channel and help my charge ignite.

I'm also thinking of using denatured alcohol to clean the bore and flash channel before loading to remove all trace of oil.

 

[Black Hand]

My recommendation would be to order in real BP and get rid of the Pyrodex altogether. It really isn't that difficult to have it delivered to your door....

 

[Jayhem]

I am open to this suggestion. Problem is muzzleloader deer season starts in 2 days so my only hope is that the local sporting good stores still have a can left (but I doubt it). I may just get a can of Pyrodex P and use that this season and see if it helps.

 

[n.h.schmidt]

Hi Jayhem
I do have a suggestion. Since time is short,this expedient will work. After you have loaded up for the hunt.You remove the nipple and sprinkle some pyrodex grains directly into where the nipple came out of.Reinstall the nipple and cap.This will get some powder directly under the nipple and will be sure to fire the main charge. This works with any type of powder.
While this isn't practical for most uses it will get you a bang everytime and you can do this right away for the hunt.
n.h.schmidt

 

[saber]

I would use real black powder but with the pixt powder you must set the ball very hard after putting the pixt down the boar set it with the ram rod only very hard with 5 or 6 rams then the patched ball

 

[HAMMERSCHILD]

Im gonna have to agree with Blackhand. However you stated a few reasons for misfires.

If your hell bent on pyrodex. Get a new nipple for starters. I never used pyrodex much but they may make nipples for its particular use.
Second, start firing a fouling shot and check for airflow back through the vent.

I wouldnt mix powders but you could prime your nipple with blackpowder.
Also I dont know what brand of caps your useing but the CCI caps I have gotten were trash and I went right back to Remington.
hope any or all of this helps :grin:

 

[saber]

and snap a cap befor you load then pick the nip with a fine wire then load

 

[R.M.]

Can you get a new nipple, say a Spitfire or Hotshot locally? They will help.

 

[geb324]

Try Drilling the nipple out a little.
Pyrodex and BP dont mix

 

[necchi]

Hi Jayhem
I do have a suggestion. Since time is short,this expedient will work. After you have loaded up for the hunt.You remove the nipple and sprinkle some pyrodex grains directly into where the nipple came out of.Reinstall the nipple and cap.This will get some powder directly under the nipple and will be sure to fire the main charge. This works with any type of powder.
While this isn't practical for most uses it will get you a bang everytime and you can do this right away for the hunt.
n.h.schmidt

Good One for the Short Term! :thumbsup:

 

[Jayhem]

Since time is short for my hunt, I am going to go with this suggestion after cleaning my fire channel and nipple well with denatured alcohol to remove any oil residues.

I do have a new nipple in place, a spitfire.

Will report back with the results if I get a bambi in the sights on Saturday! :hatsoff:

 

[smokehouseman]

I might suggest replacing the nipple with a "HotShot", and if you can pick up some 3f Triple 777 and get rid of the Pyrodex. Snap those caps before you load up. :thumbsup:

 

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

I have built a Pyrodex rifle.

If you can get real black right away, use it. I use Pyrodex because I just don't want to order black.

My solution was to use a spitfire nipple and drill it out to .040". This is what I'm showing as max for a MUSKET cap.

Now here is my logic:

I use CCI Magnum #11 primers exclusively. I was showing that they were wasting fire - they just had a bigger flash than regular primers, but didn't ignite any better. That is to say, with FFg Pyrodex, hangfires were the norm.

It stood to reason that more fire called for a slightly bigger hole. Got to reading and it seem that musket cap nipples, some at least, use up to a .040" flash hole, while this CVA nipple only used a .020", if that (some others are .030"). So, I decided to treat the Magnum caps as if they were musket caps.

Josh

 

[roundball]

Just to clarify, BP and Pyrodex do indeed work well together. In fact, if you'll read the label on the bottle of Pyrodex carefully, it states right there that improved ignition can be had by first dropping some real BP down into the breech.

When I transitioned to Flintlocks and Goex, I had 8-9 pounds of Pyrodex RS left on the shelf I had recently bought at a year end closeout for a few dollars a pound, and immediately stopped using caplocks, wanting to spend my time / learn about Flintlocks.

So I used that Pyrodex up in duplex loads of 20grns Goex 3F...(not 5grns like the label mentioned because I didn't have a measure that small)...followed by whatever amount of Pyrodex I wanted to use depending on bore size, etc, and it was a perfectly reliable and consistent powder charge.

I'd premeasure 50 - 35mm film canisters with 20grns Goex 3F and have them in one labeled gallon size ziploc...then another 50 with 30-70grns of Pyrodex labeled in a different bag.
Got a lot of excellent range time using up all that Pyrodex.

 

[Jayhem]

Good information. I have 2 lbs of pyrodex I want to use up but will be looking for some real BP asap! May give this 777 stuff a try this season.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

There is no problem with using a booster charge of black and main charge of Pyrodex. Use 5 or 10 grains of 3f and reduce your main charge of Pyro by the same amount. The haz-mat shipping charge for powder does run up the price but if you buy at least 5 pounds the total with shipping and all will probably be about like Pyrodex from your sporting goods store. If you buy 25 pounds at a time it will be way cheaper than pyrodex.

 

[R.M.]

In my opinion, drilling out the nipple is a bad idea.
If you do, and you notice the hammer coming back to full or even half cock, you will have to go back to a stock nipple.
I know you're short of time, but a half-assed fix is just that. Find the real culprit. You'll be better off.

 

[roundball]

100% Agree.

And...there may be some nipple out there as good, but I never found a better nipple than a stainless Hot-Shot.

 

[Josh Smith]

In my opinion, drilling out the nipple is a bad idea.
If you do, and you notice the hammer coming back to full or even half cock, you will have to go back to a stock nipple.
I know you're short of time, but a half-assed fix is just that. Find the real culprit. You'll be better off.

Hello,

I've drilled a nipple out to .0625". Takes about that much for it to start blowing the hammer back to half cock.

.040" is fine. Just fired off a double ball backed with 100gns to make sure I wasn't lying. Cap was even still in place.

Of course, I have a long flash channel.

Now, if you do drill out to 1/16", any blowback can be relieved using a hole or two ala the HotShot nipple. I have one that has a hole that big and will indeed vent it off due to a couple file grooves strategically placed on top of the nipple to split the cap just like I want it for easy removal. Hurts accuracy not one bit.

No big deal experimenting. Just don't break it.

I take most of my knowledge from gunsmithing smokeless firearms and apply the principles to the muzzleloader. Most work, some don't. I'm still learning what does and doesn't.

I can tell you that the .040" hole is just about right for magnum caps.

Josh

 

[JMinnerath]

I just checked the hole in a brand new Hot Shot nipple.
It'll pass a #65 drill which is .035"
Another nipple I have here passes a #60 which is .040"
Seems foolish IMO to start drilling out nipples when mis-fire problems probably lie elsewhere.