Misfires? Can I use BP behind Pyrodex?

[Dave Rosenthal]

I shoot between a 1/3 and a 1/2 pound of powder in a single outing. A 50-shot range session at 72 grains per shot means I'm using more than a 1/2 pound just then. I'll be supplying powder for myself, my son and two fatherless teen-aged boys this Sunday at our local Club's Novelty Shoot & BBQ. I'll go through more than a pound& 1/2 in a single day :idunno: .

I understand where you're coming from, but I tire of reading about how "CHEAP" shooters are. Real black (at a 5 can minimum shipment) costs the same as me driving over 100 miles one way to buy it across the counter($23.00 plus tax per pound), not including the gas, oil, wear & tear on the car. The subs cost more per pound, and let's not even talk about the pellets, cost-wise! Penny-wise and pound-foolish if you ask me! In comparison, centerfire pistol ammo has gone through the roof. A box of 50 .44 spls costs me $35.00 and I need a box & 1/2 just to shoot one local practice match.

There are "Tinkerers" in this game, and then there are "Shooters" that use powder! Shooters find a way to get it, unless they're in a remote area of a remote State (Alaska, for instance). And the guys that use it (the subs) by the pound, have overcome the obstacles with superior gun cleaning & maintainence, as well as practice and knowing their arms :applause: .

I don't intend to stir-up a hornet's nest, just illustrate how much powder you can go through when you're really into the hobby :wink: .

I'm off the soap box for now....

Dave

 

[Darkgael]

Another vote for changing the nipple to a Hotshot type. And.....duplexing works fine. When I transitioned from caplocks to flint guns, I experimented with duplex loads so as to see if they would work. They do - every time. The load is as already mentioned...about ten grains of BP and your normal charge of Pyrodex (or what ever) reduced by ten grains. Though I did try duplexing, the logic that "if you can get BP, you might as well use that" is unassailable. I went to BP. If you can get a pound of BP - or a quarter pound from someone - you might as well just go hunting with that.
The idea that - if you have a supply of a SUB like Pyrodex - you should just give it away does not (and never has) make any sense to me. If you can make it work, keep it and use it up. Order BP in the meantime. How much does a pound of Pyrodex cost? $20? Would you take that much money out of your wallet and just give it away?
Pete

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Another vote for changing the nipple to a Hotshot type. And.....duplexing works fine. When I transitioned from caplocks to flint guns, I experimented with duplex loads so as to see if they would work. They do - every time. The load is as already mentioned...about ten grains of BP and your normal charge of Pyrodex (or what ever) reduced by ten grains. Though I did try duplexing, the logic that "if you can get BP, you might as well use that" is unassailable. I went to BP. If you can get a pound of BP - or a quarter pound from someone - you might as well just go hunting with that.
The idea that - if you have a supply of a SUB like Pyrodex - you should just give it away does not (and never has) make any sense to me. If you can make it work, keep it and use it up. Order BP in the meantime. How much does a pound of Pyrodex cost? $20? Would you take that much money out of your wallet and just give it away?
Pete

Actually, YES! I'd make a new friend or help an old one. Once Pyro is opened, it needs to get used and not lay on the shelf. And the guy who gets the Pyro may have something that I could use: a tin of caps, some patches or balls, what-ever. But that's just me. If I didn't have any black powder shooters as friends (can't imagine that) I would use it up as indicated. :v

Dave

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I'm the curious type and try everything I can. I feel I can't talk about something without trying it.

I've tried all the BP subs. All of them. All it did was confirm what I thought of them before trying them. I hate them all, and if I could never get real BP i'd stop shooting BP guns.

What did I do with the crapola subs that I had left? In a safe way, I threw it all away. I don't have any enemy's that I could give it to.


As much as possible. I try to keep substitutes out of my life.

Yes, I use butter. :blah:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Are we the only folks shooting Traditional MLers who have friends? What about telling these guys to find MLer friends, so that you can order "just a pound" of powder, and still get the cheaper price? Find 4 other friends who also only want One Pound of Powder in their houses, and you have a pooled order for 5 lbs. that will save all 5 of you money?

I worry about shooters in this country. Here we have finally made great strides in affirming the meaning of the Second Amendment to our Constitution as protecting a Divinely give Personal Right to Keep and Bear Arms, and not some collective authority granted to states to have National guard units. Still, Shooter are hiding in their closest, afraid to come out and admit they own guns, that they enjoy shooting, and hunting, and they need to have better access to the ammunition and components they need, without Government repressive legislation.

IN June, 2010, The Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment applies to the States, and States can't restrict that Right unduly. It will take a series of lawsuits over the next few years to get rid of many of the restrictive laws enacted at the State and local level before Gun owners are finally free of all burdens, but its on the way.


REJOICE!

COME OUT INTO THE LIGHT!

Be Proud to be an American Gun Owner. Tell your friends.

You might be surprised at how fast you can find other shooters who would love to pool their funds to take advantage of volume price savings when buying black powder. :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

 

[hoochiepapa]

I dunno, I kind of like the dark side :wink:
But seriously, I told one neighbor that I built long rifles, showed it to him, and now they all shun me. The whole street! 'Course I live in the "people's socialist republic of boulder county". This part of CO has gone bad.
But I work on my long rifles on my front porch when it's some thing I can do there. atriot:

 

[Jblk]

I have killed alot of whitetails with both my .50 and .45 using pistol pyrodex as the propellant and a patched roundball.I had one .50 that would misfire just when you needed it most and I tried numerous types of nipples and even a small rifle primer contraption,without much improvement.I finally discovered that the problem was in the way that the hammer was striking the nipple.I bent the hammer and my problem went away.I would of bet money that the hammer was striking squarly, but it wasn't.I have often shot my great plains with about seven grains of BP under pyrodex with never a misfire.Just make sure to reduce the amount of pyrodex you use by the BP amount.Unless you are shooting a great distance sixtyfive or seventy grains will do the job nicely.Good luck

 

[paulvallandigham]

Go to your neighbors individually, and invite them to go shooting with you. That is the way you cut the bulls out of any herd. You might be surprised at how many closet Wannabe shooters you live around if you try this.

I also live in a huge "College town", run by Liberal and anti-gunners. Its not that they actually know anything about guns. Its that they have come from big city ( Chicago) environments that ran out gun stores, and indoor ranges years ago, so they simply had no place to go to learn anything about the recreational use of firearms. Urban liberals tend to associate guns ONLY with gang violence, because that is what they are told by the Media.

The Urban Elites tend to sneer and look down at the rest of us if we own guns, and enjoy outdoor sports, including " blood sports", like hunting and fishing. They actually think that meat comes plastic wrapped! and not from livestock raised and then slaughtered to process the meat into plasic wrapped portions.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Move to Colorado. Everybody has guns here.

 

[Jayhem]

I found a local supplier of black powder (they also supply for reinactors here in Virginia) and they have GOEX for $14/lb plus tax and it's only a 50 mile drive. My next questions is: How long can a can of GOEX last in storage and still not change chemically or have problems igniting? If I'm going to make that drive for it I'll probably get 5-10 lbs as I want to start shooting muzzleloaders at least on a monthly basis. :hatsoff:

 

[Zonie]

Over 200 years if it is kept dry and at a temperature under 150 degrees F.

Any black powder made 150 years ago is the same today as it was the day it was made.

Unlike modern powders there is nothing in it to break down or combine with the other things that are in it.

I would say the can or bottle it's stored in might be the limiting factor but even that is true only if the can or bottle got wet after failing and then the problem would be with the water dissolving one of the powders ingredients and leaching it out.

As for igniting, just keep it away from all sources of fire and keep it in its original containers.

If left in its containers if it does ignite, yes it will explode but it will be a fairly gentle explosion. That sounds like an oxymoron but if the gas it produces are in its original container the container is designed to just break and allow the gas to escape.

If on the other hand the powder was kept in something that was very strong it would build up a tremendous pressure before the strong container blew up so the damage to surrounding things would be much higher.

 

[bchannell]

I just bought a few cans of new, unused Goex from a fellow who quit shooting. I took it home and vacuum sealed it with the wife's produce sealer. It ought to last a long, long, long time like this. I'm also going to vac-seal my molds when not in use. Great invention, those sealers.

 

[longbow1]

I don't remember when but didn't pirodex when they came out with the pellets didn't the pellets have a dark ring of black powder on one end for easy ignition. Maybe not, I don't know

 

[longbow1]

You might try to find a musket nipple and musket cap those caps are very hot and easy to find

 

[Zonie]

Yes, Pyrodex pellets have a black ring of real black powder with some sort of glue binder on them. It is used to try to get the pellets to ignite rapidly and the black end is supposed to be loaded closest to the breech rather than towards the muzzle.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Since the pellets do contain real BP. How come they don't come under the laws of BP?