Mixed day at the range with the new CVA 54

[adiochiro3]

I cleaned up a CVA 54 cal. barrel that had a charge sitting in it for 15+ years that also had some light rust in the bore. I originally planned on just using the 50, but all y'all's posts here gave me hope that it might still be a shooter. My hopes improved even more when I cleaned it and dropped the bore light down it.

Got to the range today and ran a bunch of PRB's through trying different powder loads to see whether it has any potential. The results were inconclusive as I see them.

The following pix are of the best groups at 50 yards.

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70 gr. Pyrodex RS

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80 gr. Pyrodex RS

I also ran 90 gr. Pyrodex RS behind the PRB's, and the groups got even worse. I'm hoping to work up a 90+ gr. load worthy of hunting, but I don't think it's going to be with Pyrodex. I plan on picking up a couple of different powders to try next time out.

On the bright side: I did not have one misfire with the new hot shot nipple and the tip to side-slap the left side of the gun opposite the drum. :grin:

 

[necchi]

When I see horizontal groups when I shoot,
I know I'm "peeking",
It's a presumptive move of the rifle as I squeeze the trigger to see where the shot went.
If I slow down a bit and concentrate on follow through the shot's tend to be a little closer together, :grin:

 

[mooman76]

Try a tighter patch for those heavy loads. Did you check your fired patches? That will tell you allot. Also you may need to shoot awhile after it sitting for things to smooth out.

 

[BrownBear]

Did you recover patches? I kinda wonder if your patches weren't starting to suffer as the charge went up. No science or "facts" behind that, but it's the first thing I check when accuracy goes south before I hit the charge I want.

 

[adiochiro3]

When I see horizontal groups when I shoot,
I know I'm "peeking",
It's a presumptive move of the rifle as I squeeze the trigger to see where the shot went.
If I slow down a bit and concentrate on follow through the shot's tend to be a little closer together, :grin:

Yeah necchi, it's been a long while since I spent any significant time shooting iron sights, so I'm working back up to form on that while trying to get to know the gun. And the adjustable rear sight I just installed on this does not please my eye. I'll change that one again -- eventually. I'd love a ghost ring set up...

Try a tighter patch for those heavy loads. Did you check your fired patches? That will tell you allot. Also you may need to shoot awhile after it sitting for things to smooth out.

Mooman, I did not check my patches (forgot to pick them up during the target check), but I did start seeing them leave the muzzle when the gun fires -- very cool! What am I looking for when I examine them?

I did accidentally double patch 3-4 balls; what a pain to get them rammed home! Don't know if there was any difference in accuracy, but I did think that the single patched balls felt snug going in (the problem with that statement is that I have not done this enough to know much about what it should feel like). :grin:

Thanks to all for the advice. :hatsoff:

 

[Horizontal Hunter]

When I see horizontal groups when I shoot,
I know I'm "peeking",
It's a presumptive move of the rifle as I squeeze the trigger to see where the shot went.
If I slow down a bit and concentrate on follow through the shot's tend to be a little closer together, :grin:

Yeah necchi, it's been a long while since I spent any significant time shooting iron sights, so I'm working back up to form on that while trying to get to know the gun. And the adjustable rear sight I just installed on this does not please my eye. I'll change that one again -- eventually. I'd love a ghost ring set up...

Try a tighter patch for those heavy loads. Did you check your fired patches? That will tell you allot. Also you may need to shoot awhile after it sitting for things to smooth out.

Mooman, I did not check my patches (forgot to pick them up during the target check), but I did start seeing them leave the muzzle when the gun fires -- very cool! What am I looking for when I examine them?

I did accidentally double patch 3-4 balls; what a pain to get them rammed home! Don't know if there was any difference in accuracy, but I did think that the single patched balls felt snug going in (the problem with that statement is that I have not done this enough to know much about what it should feel like). :grin:

Thanks to all for the advice. :hatsoff:

If you can double patch a ball and get it rammed home without using a framing hammer I think you need a thicker patch.

Bob

 

[mooman76]

Your patches do not need to be super tight but if you are starting to lose accuracy in the heavier loads, I suspect you are starting to tear them up. The patches tell you allot about your load. Cuts can tell you, you have sharp edges in the barrel and shredded patches tell you they are not strong enough for that load. Burned patches can mean your lube isn't doing it's job. Notice I said "can and there are other things that can be be happening to cause this but these are some of the more common reasons.

 

[rduncan]

You might also try 60-70 grains of ffg black powder instead of Pyrodex as a starting load. And be sure you clean up religiously after using Pyrodex...it is more corrosive than black powder.
Switch to a different patch lube, also. I've been using mink oil with decent results.

 

[adiochiro3]

If you can double patch a ball and get it rammed home without using a framing hammer I think you need a thicker patch.

Bob

Bob, I wasn't far from needing a hammer. In fact, I had to smack the ball starter with my hand pretty firmly, and I had to hammer the ball home rather than push it with the rod when I double patched. I was glad to have my home-made ball starter with a nice wide piece of elk antler for a handle! I have some thicker patches and will try them out next weekend. Thanks!

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Elk antler ball starter with de-primed 38 brass tips.

Your patches do not need to be super tight but if you are starting to lose accuracy in the heavier loads, I suspect you are starting to tear them up. The patches tell you allot about your load. Cuts can tell you, you have sharp edges in the barrel and shredded patches tell you they are not strong enough for that load. Burned patches can mean your lube isn't doing it's job. Notice I said "can and there are other things that can be be happening to cause this but these are some of the more common reasons.

Thanks for the info on patch analysis, Mooman. I will definitely grab those during cease-fires to help sort all of this out.

You might also try 60-70 grains of ffg black powder instead of Pyrodex as a starting load. And be sure you clean up religiously after using Pyrodex...it is more corrosive than black powder.
Switch to a different patch lube, also. I've been using mink oil with decent results.

Papabang, I am planning to pick up some different powders this week for next week's range excursion. I don't know what the lube is on my pre-lubed patches, but I will play around with that variable as well. Just like centerfire hand-loading, there are so many variables in ML-ing! Sure keeps me interested!

Update: Upon cleaning the .54 this afternoon, I found that I failed to properly tighten the windage adjustment on my new rear sight. "There's your problem!" Or at least a significant part of it... :redface:

 

[mooman76]

One thing I didn't think to mention and this is based on different variables. Did you swab your barrel at some point during firing? Some guns/lube/ different combinations accuracy tends to fall off at some point if you don't swab between shots. Sometimes you don't need to. Some times you need to every two or three shots and some like to after every shot for top accuracy or even not at all. Something for you to ponder on but only your gun will tell what you need to do by paying attention.

 

[Bill Hall]

I'm in the Necchi group here. I see a wide sideways group, but a tight up-and-down group. If you were to shift all the holes sideways to the center, they would nearly be touching. Doesn't sound like a general accuracy problem, but more like a horizontal grouping problem. It's something that's happening on your end, i.e. sighting, canting, flinching, peeking.

I'll betcha if you do change out that rear sight to something more "see-able" for you, that sideways group spread will close up. Good luck. Bill

 

[necchi]

Update: Upon cleaning the .54 this afternoon, I found that I failed to properly tighten the windage adjustment on my new rear sight. "There's your problem!" Or at least a significant part of it... :redface:

HeeHeehee,
Thar's a Gremiln that loosens them screws too, when ya ain't alookin`, :haha:

 

[adiochiro3]

One thing I didn't think to mention and this is based on different variables. Did you swab your barrel at some point during firing? Some guns/lube/ different combinations accuracy tends to fall off at some point if you don't swab between shots. Sometimes you don't need to. Some times you need to every two or three shots and some like to after every shot for top accuracy or even not at all. Something for you to ponder on but only your gun will tell what you need to do by paying attention.

This time I swabbed only when seating the ball became difficult. The last time at the range with the 50 cal barrel I swabbed between every shot. Everything I've read about this leaves one scratching his/her head. I do know that consistency and good records in these matters count. What is the best method to start with?

I'm in the Necchi group here. I see a wide sideways group, but a tight up-and-down group. If you were to shift all the holes sideways to the center, they would nearly be touching. Doesn't sound like a general accuracy problem, but more like a horizontal grouping problem. It's something that's happening on your end, i.e. sighting, canting, flinching, peeking.

I'll betcha if you do change out that rear sight to something more "see-able" for you, that sideways group spread will close up. Good luck. Bill

As I mentioned a couple of posts up, I discovered the rear sight windage adjustment was loose and exhibited some play. I think the first step is to lock down that sight; however, I think you're right: in the end I'll need to get a rear sight that suits my eye better.

I was at the range alone yesterday; next weekend, I will have at least one buddy with me who is qualified to evaluate my form. If that is the main problem, it was more-or-less just a bad day yesterday, because I did not have any problems like this during my day at the range with the 50 cal. barrel with open sights. :idunno: I generally have a pretty fair shot routine & form (thanks to my dad's instruction & his single shot 22 lr).

HeeHeehee, Thar's a Gremlin that loosens them screws too, when ya ain't alookin`, :haha:

Yeah, that bastard hangs around my cars, my garage, and the office on occasion too. If I ever catch him, I'll cap him with this 54! :cursing:

 

[silverfox]

I agree with the horizontal groupings. Hope it was the loose screw. Now you said you saw the patches leave the barrel? I shoot both flint and caplock, I only see the flash in the pan if I peek. If you see the patches leave the barrel you must be peeking because I can't remember ever seeing a patch leave the barrel too much smoke and recoil. Keep you eyes on the front sight and let somebody else look for your patches. Good luck and sounds like your about to start getting tighter groups.
Fox :thumbsup:

 

[adiochiro3]

I agree with the horizontal groupings. Hope it was the loose screw. Now you said you saw the patches leave the barrel? I shoot both flint and caplock, I only see the flash in the pan if I peek. If you see the patches leave the barrel you must be peeking because I can't remember ever seeing a patch leave the barrel too much smoke and recoil. Keep you eyes on the front sight and let somebody else look for your patches. Good luck and sounds like your about to start getting tighter groups.
Fox :thumbsup:

I wasn't looking for the patches; I just happened to see a couple of them kind of briefly flutter up into my field of vision.

I'll find out if the loose sight adjustment was the issue or not this weekend.

Thanks, Silverfox!