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ML-Speed loaders
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paulvallandigham
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There is no reason on earth to try to speed load a muzzle loading gun. Its an invitation to making a big mistake that can damage the gun, or hurt the shooter and by standers. The speedloaders you see aren't really speed loaders. All they do is provide a place to carry a patch and ball, and in a separate compartment, a measure of powder,- measured out previously, at home- with a place for a priming cap to be held. It does not provide for cleaning patches, or lubed patches to run down the bore of the gun. It assumes that whatever load you are using allows you to fire more than one shot without lubing the barrel or ball, and without cleaning between shots.
I do carry pre=measured powder charges in little tubes, only because they are a lot less bother than worrying about my powder horn being damaged, broken, or lost in the woods. You can use a ball block to carry 3-5 patched round balls, and string it around your neck for easy and quick access, and load just as fast as with these " speed loaders". Once you get your loading routine regularized, so that you do things efficiently, and out of habit, time how long it takes to re load your gun. For most of us, its going to take between 15 and 20 seconds at the very least to get the gun reloaded, aassuming we are using a PRB. 15 seconds is a lot of time to expect a deer to stand around and wait for you to get another shot. I have been reloaded only one time when one of the deer I shot at was still in sight. The rest of the time, the deer are gone and out of hearing within 5 seconds.
I use plastic tubes that some cigars come in, by cutting them down in size, and using the cap that comes with them. Others buy cork stoppers at hobby shops, and use wither metal tubes, plastic, or wooden tubes they make and drill out for that purpose. I have seen antlers drilled out to carry separate charges with corks as stoppers for them. Do what you think fits your kind of hunting. The more hamdmade stuff you use, the more satisfaction you are going to experience on the hunt, and afterwards as friends begin asking questions about your gear, and where you got it.
I do carry pre=measured powder charges in little tubes, only because they are a lot less bother than worrying about my powder horn being damaged, broken, or lost in the woods. You can use a ball block to carry 3-5 patched round balls, and string it around your neck for easy and quick access, and load just as fast as with these " speed loaders". Once you get your loading routine regularized, so that you do things efficiently, and out of habit, time how long it takes to re load your gun. For most of us, its going to take between 15 and 20 seconds at the very least to get the gun reloaded, aassuming we are using a PRB. 15 seconds is a lot of time to expect a deer to stand around and wait for you to get another shot. I have been reloaded only one time when one of the deer I shot at was still in sight. The rest of the time, the deer are gone and out of hearing within 5 seconds.
I use plastic tubes that some cigars come in, by cutting them down in size, and using the cap that comes with them. Others buy cork stoppers at hobby shops, and use wither metal tubes, plastic, or wooden tubes they make and drill out for that purpose. I have seen antlers drilled out to carry separate charges with corks as stoppers for them. Do what you think fits your kind of hunting. The more hamdmade stuff you use, the more satisfaction you are going to experience on the hunt, and afterwards as friends begin asking questions about your gear, and where you got it.
My opinion, too. i will use small plastic glas tubes as on the range and minie-bullets, because of the German hunting law, RB doesn't bring the 100m energy for roe or bigger game which is ruled in Germany. Another problem I will see with this speed loaders is that there is powder and lubed patch in one container, so powder could be clevered at the patch. might be a desaster when loading.
What about using a rifle sling at the ML?
What about using a rifle sling at the ML?
In my mis-spent youth when I hunted with lead conicals it was much easier to carry them in a plastic speed loader. I just put five in a belt pouch with 18 caps in a metal capper and was ready for a day's hunt. The tube protects the lube in the grooves and there is no lube on the bottom of a soild conical to contract the powder. I also set a fiber wad between them as further insurance (and it helped the conical for accuracy).
A sling is very handy when dragging a deer out, but I take it off while hunting. A slung muzzleloader is very slow to bring into action. I generally carry mine cradled in my arms, and when slung it is upside down and under one arm. A rifle with a 44" barrel slung from your back catches every branch you pass under in the woods. :shake: I have two that have no fastenings, just a leather strap that slips over the barrel and the butt.
A sling is very handy when dragging a deer out, but I take it off while hunting. A slung muzzleloader is very slow to bring into action. I generally carry mine cradled in my arms, and when slung it is upside down and under one arm. A rifle with a 44" barrel slung from your back catches every branch you pass under in the woods. :shake: I have two that have no fastenings, just a leather strap that slips over the barrel and the butt.
So you think they are usable without damaging the rifle? Because this was an opinion of another forum member.I think when using minie-bullets and powder charge in such speed loaders this would be a good thing, better than loading out of the horn or flask and then digging for the bullets in the possible bag.How about an inline primer, especially for cold days when the fingers are numb.
Your point (about quick second shots being unlikely) is well taken. I enjoy taking the time for my best shot (or not taking a shot) and the re-loading gives me a chance to process what I did and saw so that I can develop a plan for finding the deer (BTW I found your treatise of tracking to be helpful). All that said, my newbie question is; is there any danger of residual spark in the barrel that would make quick re-loading a danger?
bramble
bramble
paulvallandigham
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Using a sling in the woods: Oh, boy, this can be argued. I always carry my gun on a sling, barrel pointed down under my forehand. When walking trails, it generally poses no problem. If I come to a deadfall tree across the trail, I merely lift the gun barrel up with my forehand to clear the obstruction. If I am moving through brush, I may adjust the gun and sling so its weight is still supported on my shoulder, but the gun is upside down, and the barrel level with the ground. That generally puts the barrel about 4 feet off the ground for me.
For really tall brush, I either go around, or if I have to push my way through. I bring the gun barrel up, pointing skyward, and use the barrel to push through limbs and vines and branches. More often, I look for a hole where the deer went through, and bend over to go through the hole. Then, I merely point the muzzle through the hole, first, before I step through the hole. (I just practiced this procedure here at home so I could describe it correctly here. I apparently move my head down to the gun's barrel, more than I move the gun " up " to my face, when going through holes in brush. )
At a little of 6 feet tall, getting my longrifle through the brush is not my biggest problem. That is why I often go around thick brush. I tend to stick to game trails when I am going through the woods, because they are quieter walking. They also tend to go from one large tree to another, and I use them for vertical cover, so I can still-hunt as I go, sneaking a peek around the side of a tree before I move down the game trail to the next big tree. When approaching thick brush, I automatically begin looking for tracks and sign indicating easier routes around the thicket rather than going into and through it. I will throw a stick into a thicket if I think there might be a deer hiding in it.
The sling is there to help carry the weight of my rifle, on my shoulder, and not in my hands, so they are free to use to get over and around obstacles. I use detachable sling swivels on my guns, or use a hasty sling on my muzzle loader, which I remove when I reach a spot to stand. I also take the ramrod out of the gun and put it into the ground where I can reach it easily for reloading. I don't want that metallic clacking sound I get taking that rod out of the ferrules on the gun, nor the sweeping movement of my hands that occurs when I remove the rod from the gun, while I may have a deer in sight. If the rod is in the ground I can grab it, and reload behind a large tree with a minimum of visible movement.
For really tall brush, I either go around, or if I have to push my way through. I bring the gun barrel up, pointing skyward, and use the barrel to push through limbs and vines and branches. More often, I look for a hole where the deer went through, and bend over to go through the hole. Then, I merely point the muzzle through the hole, first, before I step through the hole. (I just practiced this procedure here at home so I could describe it correctly here. I apparently move my head down to the gun's barrel, more than I move the gun " up " to my face, when going through holes in brush. )
At a little of 6 feet tall, getting my longrifle through the brush is not my biggest problem. That is why I often go around thick brush. I tend to stick to game trails when I am going through the woods, because they are quieter walking. They also tend to go from one large tree to another, and I use them for vertical cover, so I can still-hunt as I go, sneaking a peek around the side of a tree before I move down the game trail to the next big tree. When approaching thick brush, I automatically begin looking for tracks and sign indicating easier routes around the thicket rather than going into and through it. I will throw a stick into a thicket if I think there might be a deer hiding in it.
The sling is there to help carry the weight of my rifle, on my shoulder, and not in my hands, so they are free to use to get over and around obstacles. I use detachable sling swivels on my guns, or use a hasty sling on my muzzle loader, which I remove when I reach a spot to stand. I also take the ramrod out of the gun and put it into the ground where I can reach it easily for reloading. I don't want that metallic clacking sound I get taking that rod out of the ferrules on the gun, nor the sweeping movement of my hands that occurs when I remove the rod from the gun, while I may have a deer in sight. If the rod is in the ground I can grab it, and reload behind a large tree with a minimum of visible movement.
playfarmers
45 Cal.
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I am not Pc at all. I use what they call speed loaders, because I like to load right away and can do it while still watching around me. I can load almost blind folded. I do not wipe between shots, and I use a sling. I like the loaders they sell because they keep the powder seperate from the patched ball, and they keep it all clean and dry.
Kirrmeister,
I'm really never in that big of a
hurry, especially when hunting. I, like Paul,
carry pre-measured powder loads in the 35mm
film canisters.
My first shot on the deer either hit
or missed or dropped in it's tracks. No matter
I wait at least 1/2 hour before approaching or
tracking my shot. I have a lot of time to
reload. Hence, no speedloader. :hmm:
snake-eyes :v
I'm really never in that big of a
hurry, especially when hunting. I, like Paul,
carry pre-measured powder loads in the 35mm
film canisters.
My first shot on the deer either hit
or missed or dropped in it's tracks. No matter
I wait at least 1/2 hour before approaching or
tracking my shot. I have a lot of time to
reload. Hence, no speedloader. :hmm:
snake-eyes :v
paulvallandigham
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Bramble: Of course there is a danger of a residual spark in the barrel setting off the next powder charge. In my youth, when I didn't know better, I got into a bad habit of blowing down the barrel after I shot my gun, following what I saw other ML shooters do. This would extinguish any embers in the barrel, with the proof being the ending of any smoke coming out the nipple or vent. However, this is a violation of fundamental gun safety rules- Ie, " Never point a gun at anything you don't intend to destroy."- so I stopped that, and now run a dampened cleaning patch( with spit) down the barrel to extinguish embers, and force air out the nipple or vent to clear it, too. I can see, and hear the air hissing out the nipple or vent doing this, and any smoke in the barrel is clearly visible. This also allows me to clean the barrel of fouling so that the barrel will put the next shot to the same POA as the first one. I found when I don't clean between shots, the second and subsequent balls hit in a slightly different location, even at 50 yds, than a ball fired out of a clean barrel. I won't miss a broadside shot at a deer doing this, at 50 yds, but at longer ranges it can get iffy.
With a muzzle loader, and as long as you are not standing shoulder to shoulder on a battle line, with cannons and other rifles firing at you, and men standing next to you firing their guns, or crying out when they are hit, its unlikely that you won't know that a gun has misfired, and put the muzzle of a loaded gun in your mouth by mistake. However, as easy as it is to simply wipe a cleaning patch on your tongue, and run it down the barrel to put out embers, and clean the gunk out on the way back, I no longer see any reason to blow down the barrel. It really is a bad habit, and it gives beginners, kids, and idiots the wrong message about gun safety. As much as I am all in favor of cleaning out the gene pool of idiots, I don't want accidents to reflect badly on our sport. We get blamed for enough other misuses of firearms and explosives by criminals, and sick people that we don't need to add to the list.
With a muzzle loader, and as long as you are not standing shoulder to shoulder on a battle line, with cannons and other rifles firing at you, and men standing next to you firing their guns, or crying out when they are hit, its unlikely that you won't know that a gun has misfired, and put the muzzle of a loaded gun in your mouth by mistake. However, as easy as it is to simply wipe a cleaning patch on your tongue, and run it down the barrel to put out embers, and clean the gunk out on the way back, I no longer see any reason to blow down the barrel. It really is a bad habit, and it gives beginners, kids, and idiots the wrong message about gun safety. As much as I am all in favor of cleaning out the gene pool of idiots, I don't want accidents to reflect badly on our sport. We get blamed for enough other misuses of firearms and explosives by criminals, and sick people that we don't need to add to the list.
My hunting load ball and patch is tight and will not thumb start, so I reduce the ball and patch size for my speed load to a size that will easily thumb start. I put ball and patch in a 2 ball, ball board and powder in separate tube.
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I've got them and I carry them hunting, but I've never needed one. Call it good or lucky shooting, but dead is dead and I've never needed the quick follow up.
I carry them purely for convenience. Put three in my pocket and I'm ready to hunt. No other fooferra hanging over my shoulder or from my belt. Sure eases passage through the brush!
No they aren't PC, but there are PC powder tubes for holding premeasured powder charges, and you can put together a loading block for patched balls. I don't think a speed loader would be any faster or more convenient. I just haven't got around to making my own tubes and loading block. Sounds like a fun winter project, but I gotta get to it first. Modern speed loaders aren't enough to keep me from hunting or shame me in front of my friends.
I carry them purely for convenience. Put three in my pocket and I'm ready to hunt. No other fooferra hanging over my shoulder or from my belt. Sure eases passage through the brush!
No they aren't PC, but there are PC powder tubes for holding premeasured powder charges, and you can put together a loading block for patched balls. I don't think a speed loader would be any faster or more convenient. I just haven't got around to making my own tubes and loading block. Sounds like a fun winter project, but I gotta get to it first. Modern speed loaders aren't enough to keep me from hunting or shame me in front of my friends.
bigbore442001
50 Cal.
I have been using speedloaders since I was a kid. I know that a powder flask or horn is more historically correct but in today's hunting fields, a few speedloaders are all you need. They also provide a quicker second shot if one is needed.
I have never had a problem with speedloaders in the years that I have used them.
I have never had a problem with speedloaders in the years that I have used them.
Kirrmeister said:
Damage the rifle? No. But they might damn your soul to an eternity in a lake of molten plastic. :rotf:
I no longer use them as I only shoot round balls now. I have a three shot maple block on my sling strap and a bone powder measure tied to the neck of the horn. No need to dig around in my hunting pouch at all. With a load already in the rifle I can rip off four shots in a minute from my flintlock rifle, but have never had the need to accomplish that while hunting. I was never that fast with plastic speed loaders and there is really no need for it (but it is fun for plinking). I generally reload very slowly to give my thoughts a chance to get back in sync with my head. In the event of a deer flopping about it is comforting to have the ability to put a fast second shot in for mercy's (and recovery's) sake.
Paulvalindingham: I have never once killed an animal with a slung firearm. When I'm in the woods I'm hunting and ready to shoot instantly. I'm 6'3" and I carry the rifle either at the ready or level at the balance point so I can thread through brush. Many deer I've taken offered two or three seconds of opportunity. I try to be as alert as possible. Tiring, yes, but I get a lot of time to rest and little time to hunt in a year.
Because I'm new in ML-hunting, but not in hunting at all I have to try several parts of equipment. As you know round balls can't be used in GE for the hunt on deers, because they don't bring the ruled energy at 100m. Only minies or special hunting bullets like great plains bullet from Hornady do so.Round ball block is not very useful for me.
paulvallandigham
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Stumpy: Its sounds like we hunt alike. I use the sling only when coming and going from the woods. If I am still hunting, I am moving so slowly that moving in and around brush and trees is no real problem. I do as you do, with the gun in my hands. The sling always comes off my gun when I begin to hunt. I use a hasty sling made from a length of leather bootlace latigo on my flintlock. Its not the best choice, but it works to free my hands, particularly when going up and down inclines.
