I think that a man is traditional hunting if he has a traditional gun.sights and projectile. clothing is just icing on the cake for those who care to go to the period correct clothing level, these definitions vary with some but if one follows the forum and function line of thought traditional becomes pretty easy to grasp unless one is very attatched to the modern.
-
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
modern equipment?
- Thread starter chuck-ia
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
John Wasmuth
50 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2005
- Messages
- 1,328
- Reaction score
- 6
Can't ague with that TG.
John Wasmuth
50 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2005
- Messages
- 1,328
- Reaction score
- 6
Yeppers, thorns, briars, cactus, catclaw, all sorts of horrid "Tear ya apart brush" is just part of the fun......... :rotf:
JayDee Flohr
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2009
- Messages
- 390
- Reaction score
- 0
Great post !
If my hunt with muzzleloader or bow is on a weekend or day off from work, I generally try to dress the part. My clothing may not be PC/HC to some but it's PC to me....."Personally Correct" :thumbsup:
I've found through the years that as long as you sit still, mind the wind, and stay in the shadows, you can successfully hunt anything without camo.
If it's raining I don't hunt. Too easy to lose a blood trail in rain and there's always another day.
If the hunt is a quick one one after work or last minute, I usually wear what ever I have on and hunt from inside a blind. Those are the hunts where I'm usually doing more scouting than actual hunting. It's just not as fun for me, but it's still better than sitting at home.
I don't own any Gortex and threw away my cell phone over ten years ago. I'm glad to have that monkey off my back.
I do use trail cameras, not so much for scouting as just to see what's in the area and to see when all bucks have shed out so I know when to start shed hunting.
No atv, I drive 17 miles to my farm ground to hunt. I'm fortunate enough that where ever I drop an animal, I can drive to within 20 or so yards of it.
If my hunt with muzzleloader or bow is on a weekend or day off from work, I generally try to dress the part. My clothing may not be PC/HC to some but it's PC to me....."Personally Correct" :thumbsup:
I've found through the years that as long as you sit still, mind the wind, and stay in the shadows, you can successfully hunt anything without camo.
If it's raining I don't hunt. Too easy to lose a blood trail in rain and there's always another day.
If the hunt is a quick one one after work or last minute, I usually wear what ever I have on and hunt from inside a blind. Those are the hunts where I'm usually doing more scouting than actual hunting. It's just not as fun for me, but it's still better than sitting at home.
I don't own any Gortex and threw away my cell phone over ten years ago. I'm glad to have that monkey off my back.
I do use trail cameras, not so much for scouting as just to see what's in the area and to see when all bucks have shed out so I know when to start shed hunting.
No atv, I drive 17 miles to my farm ground to hunt. I'm fortunate enough that where ever I drop an animal, I can drive to within 20 or so yards of it.
Most people around here think I am weird enough when seen hunting with a flintlock, imagine what they'd do if I was wearing buckskins. I guess it is pretty hard to hunt the way they did 200 years ago, for me anyway.I do wear a watch, don't want to take a shot after legal shooting hours, 200 years ago it didn't matter what time it was. Now that I think about it my rifle and bag, horn, are about the only things that are actually period correct. But, no atv's, range finders, trail cameras and such for me. chuck
Robert Scheffler
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 199
- Reaction score
- 0
Good for you flinch. It's your hunt, do it like you want. Watches do come in handy. They had them back then too. Once I was hunting in 18th century attire when a couple fellers came up in a pickup truck. I started to explain the reason I was dressed like I was when they said that they belonged to a local ML club and they thought it was a nice touch that I was hunting in my garb. So, you just never know.
lonehunter
58 Cal.
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2009
- Messages
- 2,107
- Reaction score
- 12
Nice, looks good. :thumbsup: :v
paulvallandigham
Passed On
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2006
- Messages
- 17,537
- Reaction score
- 89
Agree: Government rules come from committees who can't agree on anything. So, they compromise. That camel was designed by a committee, too, including some who wanted a Race Horse, and others who thought a mule was just fine. :rotf: :blah:
What government rules allow for hunting is based solely on politics, and not on what the true meaning of words are. This forum has both the right, and I submit, a moral obligation to define Traditional in a way that reflects true concern for authentic recreation of gear, guns, and clothing. Much information has changed over the more than 40 years I have been studying up on this branch of history. A lot of ideas that were thought to be true back in the 1950s and '60s, now are considered erroneous, and false, as a result of more exhaustive research.
The Government is only concerned with removing a certain percentage of their game population each year to attempt to reduce car-game accidents, and claims, and to keep the population a size that can exist over the winter months given the limited food and shelter available to them.
If they size of the herds are too big, we have animals feeding in people's back yards, and blocking traffic in town. Everything else relating to 'seasons" is secondary.
They could care less about the definition of any word, much less something like " traditional". If some controversy arises over language used in a regulation, government find another work, more ambiguous to use and modify the language accordingly.
The only people in society who have any stake in words meaning the same thing 100 years from now as they do now, are lawyers and judges, and small interest groups like us, who have a real interest in making sure other people understand what we are speaking about. Certainly, writers, journalists, teachers, and broadcasters have little or no interest in preserving the meaning of works, judging by their behaviors.
What government rules allow for hunting is based solely on politics, and not on what the true meaning of words are. This forum has both the right, and I submit, a moral obligation to define Traditional in a way that reflects true concern for authentic recreation of gear, guns, and clothing. Much information has changed over the more than 40 years I have been studying up on this branch of history. A lot of ideas that were thought to be true back in the 1950s and '60s, now are considered erroneous, and false, as a result of more exhaustive research.
The Government is only concerned with removing a certain percentage of their game population each year to attempt to reduce car-game accidents, and claims, and to keep the population a size that can exist over the winter months given the limited food and shelter available to them.
If they size of the herds are too big, we have animals feeding in people's back yards, and blocking traffic in town. Everything else relating to 'seasons" is secondary.
They could care less about the definition of any word, much less something like " traditional". If some controversy arises over language used in a regulation, government find another work, more ambiguous to use and modify the language accordingly.
The only people in society who have any stake in words meaning the same thing 100 years from now as they do now, are lawyers and judges, and small interest groups like us, who have a real interest in making sure other people understand what we are speaking about. Certainly, writers, journalists, teachers, and broadcasters have little or no interest in preserving the meaning of works, judging by their behaviors.
mikee51848
54 Cal.
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2005
- Messages
- 1,599
- Reaction score
- 2
Man! That's a huge deer! Oh... photo angle! :haha:
Idaho Ron
58 Cal.
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2007
- Messages
- 2,729
- Reaction score
- 1,227
We no longer have a traditional only hunt here in Idaho. Our F&G commission caved in and allowed inline rifles. When we did have a traditional only hunt you had to have a Renegade style gun, (pivoting hammer) We also could only use loose powder ( black or a substitute) also NO primers were allowed. Only flints, #11 caps, and musket caps were legal. Also the bullet had to be lead only, and within 10 thousands of an inch of the bore size. The sights had to be open or peep sights.
Idaho’s traditional designation was fair in my book. It allowed most all the replica rifles like the TC’s and Lymans. Idaho’s standard is still the standard I go by now. In my opinion my Renegade rifles and loads are traditional. Others might not agree but I could care less.
I say don’t complain about a bullet not being 100% PC, and HC if your moccasins have rubber soles. Don’t complain about my peep sight if you are using Leupold binoculars, and gortex. This is an interesting quote. It seem sthat PC and HC should only apply to some.
Ron
Idaho’s traditional designation was fair in my book. It allowed most all the replica rifles like the TC’s and Lymans. Idaho’s standard is still the standard I go by now. In my opinion my Renegade rifles and loads are traditional. Others might not agree but I could care less.
I say don’t complain about a bullet not being 100% PC, and HC if your moccasins have rubber soles. Don’t complain about my peep sight if you are using Leupold binoculars, and gortex. This is an interesting quote. It seem sthat PC and HC should only apply to some.
Ron
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/226760/post/new/#NEWtg said:
Last edited by a moderator:
" My clothing may not be PC/HC to some but it's PC to me"
Looks pretty good to me, what level of "correctness" in clothing is a personal thing, just the effort to go that direction means a person hasthe real traditional ML mindset, your stuff looks good to me, I do not getreally stiff on clothes as they can be spendy if you cannot sew, but there are many little things one can make PC if they really want to, I have carreied two way radios for several years dad is going on 79 real soon and my first priority is not to loose him out in the bush some where, a lot of modern items are acceptable for similar reasons, but pointed to and foul is called by some who try to convince themselves and others that no one can really be PC.
Looks pretty good to me, what level of "correctness" in clothing is a personal thing, just the effort to go that direction means a person hasthe real traditional ML mindset, your stuff looks good to me, I do not getreally stiff on clothes as they can be spendy if you cannot sew, but there are many little things one can make PC if they really want to, I have carreied two way radios for several years dad is going on 79 real soon and my first priority is not to loose him out in the bush some where, a lot of modern items are acceptable for similar reasons, but pointed to and foul is called by some who try to convince themselves and others that no one can really be PC.
Idaho Ron
58 Cal.
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2007
- Messages
- 2,729
- Reaction score
- 1,227
So a conical is not ok in a traditional hunt in your opinion, but a two way radio is? Clothing that has NO proof of ever being worn is ok if it looks traditional, but a bullet that is not seen violates the traditional theme? Sounds like you just want to keep people out of hunts. Good luck with that. Ron
I think we are looking for traditional connicals that are based on originals on this thread not just connicals in general in case some folks were confused about that distinction, and radios,watches, insulin,and many items are carried that have no effect on the hunt, they give no advantage over the primitive PRB/original style connicals, or original aperture sights as do the modern versions, I will quote myself to some it up rather neatly for those who cannot let go of modern hunting gear which increases the range and energy and accuracy of the projectile
" a lot of modern items are acceptable for similar reasons, but pointed to and foul is called by some who try to convince themselves and others that no one can really be PC."
Have a nice day Ron, I was curious so I temporarily removed the ignore function long enough to read just about what I had expected, more of the same remarks from a modern oriented hunter who chooses a gun that loads from the front, which is fine but it is real hard to hang the "Traditional" flag on the end of that ramrod but everyone does not have to be traditional if they choose not to be... Bye now
" a lot of modern items are acceptable for similar reasons, but pointed to and foul is called by some who try to convince themselves and others that no one can really be PC."
Have a nice day Ron, I was curious so I temporarily removed the ignore function long enough to read just about what I had expected, more of the same remarks from a modern oriented hunter who chooses a gun that loads from the front, which is fine but it is real hard to hang the "Traditional" flag on the end of that ramrod but everyone does not have to be traditional if they choose not to be... Bye now
JayDee Flohr
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2009
- Messages
- 390
- Reaction score
- 0
Thanks tg :thumbsup: In the past I've had it pointed out to me that "you can't wear a frock while hunting with a percussion gun" :shake:
By the way, I like your outfit. :thumbsup:
A clout is on my to do list.
"I don't care what people do outside this Forum, but suggesting that anything the "law" allows is traditional, may cause confusion in this "Traditional Muzzleloader Hunting" category."
Claude, I think that many who cannot let go of the modern bullets/sights that give longer range and better accuracy will grasp at any straw to validate their use of the term Traditional, it certainly does no favours to the newcommers who are really looking to set up a traditional hunting outfit, and it is the gun.projectile and sights that are what make or break a traditional outfit as this is where an advantage is to be gained by using the modern stuff, yet they always have to point at types of mocs,phones, 4x4's or anything else non PC which has no bearing on the efficiency of the gun or outcome of the hunt to validate their poisition, hiding behind a loose Game Dept definition is a pretty weak limb to hang from.
Claude, I think that many who cannot let go of the modern bullets/sights that give longer range and better accuracy will grasp at any straw to validate their use of the term Traditional, it certainly does no favours to the newcommers who are really looking to set up a traditional hunting outfit, and it is the gun.projectile and sights that are what make or break a traditional outfit as this is where an advantage is to be gained by using the modern stuff, yet they always have to point at types of mocs,phones, 4x4's or anything else non PC which has no bearing on the efficiency of the gun or outcome of the hunt to validate their poisition, hiding behind a loose Game Dept definition is a pretty weak limb to hang from.
"you can't wear a frock while hunting with a percussion gun"
I believe I have seen evidence on other forums that the Frock was in use past the time of the Alamo, I would not be concerned, as time goes on you can research a lot of stuff and see how many times yer leg has been pulled.
I believe I have seen evidence on other forums that the Frock was in use past the time of the Alamo, I would not be concerned, as time goes on you can research a lot of stuff and see how many times yer leg has been pulled.
vern faulkner
54 Cal.
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2009
- Messages
- 1,548
- Reaction score
- 5
:hmm: Here in Pa. it's kinda hard to go out an a " traditional " ( pc ) hunt with a blaze orange hat and vest. Kind of gives you that pre-puke metallic taste in your mouth :barf: :barf:. Vern
longcruise
70 Cal.
That got me thinkin (dangerous business :shocked2: ). I got thinking about my own kit and what do I carry or use that is modern and that give me an advantage over the mountain man of old?
So, first on the list is the automobile, of course. But when you examine that in terms of an advantage and put it in a comparative context, there is no advantage. We modern sport hunters are restricted by time. The mountain man of old woke up in the middle of hunting (food gathering) country each and every day of the year. My getting there by auto for my short hunt is not really an advantage.
How about my clothing? Not much advantage there. I wear pretty basic and non-modern clothing. No gore tex etc. Just layers of wool and cotton. The hat? Not much advantage there. In fact, If I wear a blaze orange baseball style cap it is a disadvantage compared to the headgear of old. But.... gotta fess up on the foot gear :redface:. I don't roam the Rockies (and that is usually a litereal description) with any type of trad foot gear. I wear a high quality waterproof boot which is for sure an advantage over a handmade moc.
My back pack is not an advatage over a possibles bag or haversack other than it is a bit more stable to walk with. OTOH, I probably walk more in a day than most mountain men did. They did not often go off on long treks without their horses unless they had been stolen by hostiles (that sorta brings us back to the boots, too).
The stuff in the pack gives little advantage either. Matches are a big advantage and conveniance, but, OTOH, are usually used only in camp and ride in the pack only in case of emergency (which has never arisen over many years hunting in the rockies). I carry a compass but rarely use it and even when I have used it, it was more for entertainment than need (little things amuse little minds
)I carry water in my pack in a, gasp, plastic bottle. Not much gained there over any other water carrying device of olden times. My knives are in my pack and are pretty much what was carried back in the day. A skinner and a butcher knife. Rope? They didn't carry a chunk of nylon or cotton rope back then but whatever they carried was no less useful.
The one thing in my pack that is a huge advantage is that roll of TP
When it comes to hunting gear, it's just a plains style cap gun stuffed with a round ball. Extra shooting supplies in a shooting bag and powder in the horn.
My food supply is a big advantage though. I have everything I need to eat and drink for the duration of the hunt, whereas the men of the mountains had to find their fare daily or eat jerky.
As far as getting game goes, the advantage goes to the mountain man. With only several thousand trappers in the rockies, they did not have the competition or intereference from other hunters to contend with.
gmww
70 Cal.
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2004
- Messages
- 4,693
- Reaction score
- 4
For me it's more about the hunt with my child. My big reason for ML at first was it meant less people and a safer hunt. I've been scoped way too many times to go into detail.
So my traditional gun is the underhammer, BP or Pyrodex. Pure lead conical or RB cast by me. We don't stalk much but rather sit and wait. This is mainly at the request of the land owner who does not want the game moved around by a bunch of hunters. We do as the land owner asks if we expect to hunt there again. So far we've always bagged a deer.
Our clothing is modern, we use a spray to cover our scent. I use binoculars for spotting in the field to see whats coming. We carry our cell phone for emergencies. I've learned quite a bit from the traditional posters here and have tried some suggestions posted. It's been a great forum of an exchange of ideas.
So my traditional gun is the underhammer, BP or Pyrodex. Pure lead conical or RB cast by me. We don't stalk much but rather sit and wait. This is mainly at the request of the land owner who does not want the game moved around by a bunch of hunters. We do as the land owner asks if we expect to hunt there again. So far we've always bagged a deer.
Our clothing is modern, we use a spray to cover our scent. I use binoculars for spotting in the field to see whats coming. We carry our cell phone for emergencies. I've learned quite a bit from the traditional posters here and have tried some suggestions posted. It's been a great forum of an exchange of ideas.
Anyone who might not be a purist might find this useful for hunting...years ago I settled on what to me is a great alternative to using a typical backpack to carry hunting items/equipment...a good quality, over-sized, upland hunting vest...to be used as an equipment vest.
I use a big 3XL Tall size with all the big pockets, then have a shoe shop make a few strategic stitches to create a few more separate pockets, and load it up.
Eyeglasses / bug spray / skinning knife / folding saw / drag strap / calls / headlight / binocs / camera / sandwiches / candy bars / water bottles / hat / gloves / facemask / TP / Flintlock supplies / priming horn / reloads / raingear / etc, etc.
Spreads the weight all around evenly, everything is always in the same pockets, easy to get to without having to remove a backpack to do so...sets in and out of the truck easily.
Just swap out a few items when changing seasons for deer, squirrels, turkey, etc
I use a big 3XL Tall size with all the big pockets, then have a shoe shop make a few strategic stitches to create a few more separate pockets, and load it up.
Eyeglasses / bug spray / skinning knife / folding saw / drag strap / calls / headlight / binocs / camera / sandwiches / candy bars / water bottles / hat / gloves / facemask / TP / Flintlock supplies / priming horn / reloads / raingear / etc, etc.
Spreads the weight all around evenly, everything is always in the same pockets, easy to get to without having to remove a backpack to do so...sets in and out of the truck easily.
Just swap out a few items when changing seasons for deer, squirrels, turkey, etc
