"modernizing" a long rifle

[tcostell]

If you all don't mind I'd like to solicit a few opinions. I'm a hobbyist builder who lacks the skill to make museum pieces, but I enjoy it, my skill is improving, and me and my family have a few moderately attractive rifles as the result of my efforts. I'm thinking about incorporating some of the 'modern' conveniences that may not be authentic period into my next project. So my question is, how much would it bother you to see something like a hooked breach in what would otherwise be a 1770's flintlock with a swamped barrel? It seems to me something like that makes cleaning a lot easier and might be worth the upturned noses of a few experts.
I guess I'm just wondering how you all feel about the importance of staying authentic to the period.

Thanks

 

:hmmarson, build what makes you happy, If you want to build to be right on every detail, well find, but will this please you in the need to build. Rmember you are the person that must be pleased.

 

[LRB]

It would turn me off, but thats just me. I have no problem cleaning a long rifle. I just plug the vent and clean. Every other year or so, I pull my barrel and liberally apply paste wax to it and the barrel channel and have no problems with water.

 

[SCATTERSHOT]

I think too many people get hung up on this period correct stuff. Build what you like. Personally, I think a hooked breech is a terrific idea. Go for it.

JMHO
Gene

 

[Packdog]

It's your money and your gun, so build it the way you want however if you ever go to sell it, then it will probably be a turn off to most of the people who you would sell it to.
:m2c:
I think you will find the need to remove the barrel is almost non-existent if you apply a liberal amount of bore butter or other grease to the bottom of the barrel and use a flush kit to clean. :results:

Packdog

 

[BLAHMAN]

Hey, knock your socks off! :thumbsup:

 

[tg]

As stated it is your gun, also as stated taking off the barrel is not required, and as a plus to your idea Diderots Encyclopedia (1751-1777) shows a drawing of a hooked breech in an exploded view of a French gun, though not existing period piece has been found with such a set up it could hardly be called wrong.

 

[AeroE]

Some day, building an American Longrifle with a few modern updates and simplifications might be an important job if that is the best gun a person can get easily.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

If you all don't mind I'd like to solicit a few opinions. I'm a hobbyist builder who lacks the skill to make museum pieces, but I enjoy it, my skill is improving, and me and my family have a few moderately attractive rifles as the result of my efforts. I'm thinking about incorporating some of the 'modern' conveniences that may not be authentic period into my next project. So my question is, how much would it bother you to see something like a hooked breach in what would otherwise be a 1770's flintlock with a swamped barrel? It seems to me something like that makes cleaning a lot easier and might be worth the upturned noses of a few experts.
I guess I'm just wondering how you all feel about the importance of staying authentic to the period.

Thanks

Think English, some makers produced sporting flintlock rifles in this style.

 

[Doc Arroyo]

No problem with the idea, but I thought of a possible problem area.

You will probably want to key the barrel instead of pins, since you are going with a hooked breech. The estucheons for the keys will look a bit out of place on a 1776 rifle. But the main thing is to make sure the estucheons run in a straight line, and don't follow the profile of the bottm flat of the barrel. This will take a bit of planning to get right!

One maker to look at is Dickert. He was around long enough to have possibly built a hooked breach gun in the 1800's, but his style was somewhat set in the 1770's.

 

[tcostell]

Actually I was thinking of filing them close and disguising them with an inlay around each, but I hadn't thought of the contour of the bottom flat. I'm still on the fence about the whole thing and that alignment issue is pushing me a little further away. I'm already decided on the swamped barrel but the breech is still up in the air. You know how it is...me I usually obsess about an idea like this for a few weeks before I get started, and change my mind 20 or thirty times. But it's good to know the idea isn't some panacea that everyone only stopped joking about the last few years.
Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Gary]

The British Baker rifle was hook breached & the barrel was secured to the stock by wedges. Pretty modern for its time.

 

[Doc Arroyo]

I don't want to push you away from the idea. It is not that difficult to plan for, but might be unsightly if it wasn't. You just need to do some height adjustment's at the barrel tennons.

By the way, you aren't the only one thinking a bit outside the box. My next build for me, maybe #3 on the list, is a bastardized Dickert hotrod. 1805 flint longrifle goes west, and through a number of years of use and abuse becomes a 1840's halfstock. Jury is still out on a percussion conversion....

Build what makes ya happy!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:

 

There are two wedge sizes; the big honkers for the half stock rifles and the little delicate wedges that were used on the "golden age guns". Wedges were not overwhelmingly common on origional guns, but they were known and they were used. Many of those stock inlays on the fancy guns were supporting tiney wedges.

It is disipointing that no one here has noticed that in any of their studies.

If one installs the hooked breech carefully it will be no more noticable than the line between tang and barrel.

Having said that I can assure you that the effort will not be worth the trouble. Use the wedges if you desire but forget the hooked breech. Simply unscrew the tang screw and lift out the barrel. You are not talking about 30 seconds of time, the gun will still be PC and retain its value as a build.

Hooked breech also implies patent breech ad that begins a world of trouble and adventure in a flintlock rifle. Almost every querry on out flintlock section that begins with "My gun will not go boom" involves the care and feeding of a patent breech.

:front:

 

[tcostell]

It seemed to me that it would only be worth it to take the barrel off at all if it was easy to do. A flush kit is easy enough to use, I just thought that if it CAN be done easily it might be a good idea. Like I said, I'm still on the fence. Thanks for the input though.

 

[tg]

"It is disipointing that no one here has noticed that in any of their studies."

Often we fail to share all that we know.....and just as often many don't really care... a close look at many of the guns in Whiskers and Schumways books suggests small wedges w/without escutchens

 

[Scota4570]

Any old rifles made such that the tang screws are buried under the tang and the tang has hooks that slip under the screw heads? I am talking about the system used to hold down the butplate extension on the top of the comb as used on doubles. If you did this on the tang you could pull the pins or wedges and slide the barrel foreward then out it comes. It would strengthen the tang but weaken the stock. A trade off there.

 

[LRB]

Scota4570 This
would not be possible with a swamped barrel and flared tang which is pretty much the norm for 18th century American.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Small wedges were often used without escutcheon plates. If fitted carefully and nicely browned they would be nearly invisible. For an example of this, go to www.trackofthewolf.com and click on gun kits, then scroll down to the fowler section and you are there.
I do remove the barrel from my Hawken when cleaning it, but do not find my pinned stock guns to be any more difficult to clean because the barrel can't be easily removed. As mentioned, if the barrel was lubed before seating it in the stock rust isn't a problem.
That said, it is your rifle and, unless you plan on getting involved in juried re-enactments, please yourself. Whenever I find myself taking The "Historically Correct" thing too seriously, I remind myself that I'm supposed to be having fun here....

 

[dryfly]

Like everyone else says, you are the one who must decide. Personally I enjoy picking an old master and doing my darndest to do him credit on it. That goes right down to all of the proper furniture, inlays and carving (currently going through my Dickert phase). I have no real problem cleaning my flinters now even though it takes a little time. How will the hooked breach make the geometry of the lock area look?