More Natural Lube 1000 = 40shots 2F with no wiping

[roundball]

Just got back...ran the whole 40 shot range session with Goex 2F in the same .54cal rifle, same everything...except...I used patches that I had nuked a lot more NL1000 into and that did it.

Only thing I can figure is that instead of using my good, .018" prelubed pillow ticking patches to plink with at the range, I've been using several bags of Oxyoke .015" cotton patches I bought at a gun show last summer at a real low price...I now see that they were a little dry and I didn't pick up on it. When using them last summer, I was only using 3F and everything was fine.

These past few Saturdays was the first time I used them with 2F and apparently they just didn't have enbough lube in them to control the 2F fouling.

But thanks to 'buckknife' who asked if I had enough lube, I melted more into the patches and life is good again, even with 2F...40 shots / no wiping...my kind of range session!!

:redthumb:

 

[cayugad]

I did 30 shots yesterday using moosemilk patches in a "unseasoned bore". I will admit the barrel was getting a little fowled using the 2f towards the end.

I have a old .54 caliber rifle that I have been running a bore butter test on. So far the rifle has been holding its own reference shooting and staying rust free. I try and shoot it once a week which I figure would be the average a every once in a while shooter might fire their muzzleloader.

Next week I will be running some Swiss 3f tests on a couple rifles and see how they behave. It should be interesting to say the least. I figure that stuff in a flinter should get some good results..

 

[Huntinfool]

Next week I will be running some Swiss 3f tests on a couple rifles and see how they behave. It should be interesting to say the least. I figure that stuff in a flinter should get some good results..

That's all I use in my .50 flinter. I love the stuff!

Chuck

 

[crockett]

I am thinking about switching to Natural Lube 1000. Right now I use hot soapy water to clean the barrel after every session. As I understand it, you use the lube for the patches and then there is some other product for cleaning the bore after shooting and you don't have to use the hot soapy water, etc. Is that correct and have you had any problem with rust, etc? On the 40 shots, how tough were the last few to load? :hmm:

 

[roundball]

I am thinking about switching to Natural Lube 1000. Right now I use hot soapy water to clean the barrel after every session. As I understand it, you use the lube for the patches and then there is some other product for cleaning the bore after shooting and you don't have to use the hot soapy water, etc. Is that correct and have you had any problem with rust, etc? On the 40 shots, how tough were the last few to load? :hmm:

Here's how I do it with my hooked breech Hawken barrels:

I use one very large pail of steaming hot soapy water, and alternate pump-flushing patches & strokes with a bore brush until the patches come out snow white...I want no build-up (no "seasoning") left in the bore what-so-ever.

Then a small pail of clean hot rinse water to pump flush "rinse" the bore squeaky clean...get the film of dirty BP fouled water off of it, etc.

Then get the bore 100% bone dry while it's still warm.

Then heavily plaster NL1000 all up and down the bore also while it's still slightly warm, applying very liberal amounts of it from a tube or jar onto a big lubing patch with a popcicle stick, putty knife, etc...do this 4-5 times until every square inch of that bore is heavily coated.

When I shoot, I use patches prelubed with NL1000...and all forty patched balls seat just like the first one.

ie: the point of this post was that I wasn't paying attention and the shooting patches I had bought last summer were pretty dry, not enough lube to work as they should...when I melted some more lube into them the fouling was then managed at the equivalent level of a single shot's worth of fouling each time, etc...so loading is done under conditions as if only a single shot had previously been fired, no matter how many times it's actually been fired.


(when the fouling remains minimal and soft, every time you seat a patched ball, it wipes the remaining fouling off the bore and pushed it down on top of the powder charge.
When the next shot it fired, that fouling is ejected, and after that shot, the bore then has one shot's worth of fresh fouling on it. You load another patched ball, the cycle repeats...40 shots later, you're still only wiping the last singles shot's worth of fouling down the bore onto the powder)

 

[cayugad]

Next week I will be running some Swiss 3f tests on a couple rifles and see how they behave. It should be interesting to say the least. I figure that stuff in a flinter should get some good results..

That's all I use in my .50 flinter. I love the stuff!

Chuck

What kind of loads do you shoot Chuck with the Swiss 3f? I am shooting 90 grains of Goex 3f in my Hawkins flintlock with excellent accuracy. What should I cut the charge back to for safety reasons? And accuracy reasons of course. My understanding is Swiss is much stronger.

 

[rrgr40]

I've been using the stuff on pillow ticking in my Dixie, .50 calibre poorboy for several years, have shot all day without cleaning. Normally use about 60gr of 2f goex. I'll keep using it until it stops working and I always try it in a new gun. Have much faith in it. :m2c: :redthumb:

 

[buckknife]

Good to see it worked out ok.did some shooten today myself.Was around 60 degrees but humidity was at 27%,some dry air.Used the thinner patch material i have been using with the 530 ball that loaded with out a short starter.This time i used a 535 ball,tight fit and glad i took my short starter with me.I was shooten straight rendered beef fat,it was hard loaden and geten harder every shot.I switched over to straight murphys oil soap and problem solved.Still had to use a short starter but it loaded much easyer.Shot maybe 30 balls with no problems but a few holes in the patch when i went over 85gr of 2f.
Next time im gonna use nuthin but murphys and see what it takes to blow the patch with the 530 ball.Dont know if i will see that low of humidity again for a while though.
Made sum smoke and had sum fun anyways

 

[Slamfire]

That other stuff is called Number 13 bore cleaner. I haven't tried it yet but will probably use it on my underhammer, it's a real pain takin' the forend off to pull the barrel.

 

[Huntinfool]

Next week I will be running some Swiss 3f tests on a couple rifles and see how they behave. It should be interesting to say the least. I figure that stuff in a flinter should get some good results..

That's all I use in my .50 flinter. I love the stuff!
Chuck

What kind of loads do you shoot Chuck with the Swiss 3f? I am shooting 90 grains of Goex 3f in my Hawkins flintlock with excellent accuracy. What should I cut the charge back to for safety reasons? And accuracy reasons of course. My understanding is Swiss is much stronger.

Yes Sir, I've been laying off to make some tests of my own...I hate repeating hearsay, but with that being said. A few guys I know weighed some Goex and some Swiss to see how close it was to the volume measure device they used and the Goex was about right on with the volume measure they both said that the Swiss weighed a little more per volume measure. Enough that they recomended cutting it back 10% but they were taking chronograph info also as evidence of it being hotter.

My own experience back that up, it burns a little hotter and cleaner. I started with 65 grains and went up to 80 grains. With 80 it really cooked and I could feel the difference on my shoulder too.

I settled on 70 grains for my everything load I hunt, target shoot, and plink with 70 grains measured by volume. I'm going to measure that load right now.......Well so much for that therory my load that I use all the time a home made measure throws about 70 to 71 grains!

The factory made adjustable measure with a funnel attached to level off the load shows that FFFg Swiss was right on the money 70 grains by volume weighed 70 grains on my scales.

But Swiss is definitely hotter of that I'm sure so you should start with a little less. But not for safety's sake I don't think you have to worry as Black Powder doesn't build up pressure like smokeless powder!

With my load of 70 grains Swiss FFFg I've shot through every deer I've taken even on a facing me quartering shot catching a shoulder and exiting through the hip!

Sorry Roundball just realize were hi-jacking your thread!
Sorry ff:

Chuck

 

[cayugad]

thanks.. I'll start at 65 grains of Swiss 3f and work up from there.


Roundball .. on a barrel I have been treating to protect with only bore butter and shooting it once a week, yesterday I noticed a light brown film on the patch with I wiped the bore out before shooting. I do not think it was rust but have no other idea what it could have been.

The barrel was real clean and hot before I started wiping it down with melted bore butter. Any ideas of what this could be?

thanks

 

[Huntinfool]

I had the same results and I read some stuff elsewhere that it was a slight film of rust whether it was or was not I don't know.

I quit using it and changed my methods to what my gunsmith has been doing for 45 years and I've not seen any brown anymore and I have good results. Plus I'm not dependent on any patch lube I have to buy.

Chuck

 

[roundball]

thanks.. I'll start at 65 grains of Swiss 3f and work up from there.


Roundball .. on a barrel I have been treating to protect with only bore butter and shooting it once a week, yesterday I noticed a light brown film on the patch with I wiped the bore out before shooting. I do not think it was rust but have no other idea what it could have been.

The barrel was real clean and hot before I started wiping it down with melted bore butter. Any ideas of what this could be?

thanks

Well, if it's rust...there's only three things I know of that will cause that to happen on a metal surface:

It wasn't 100% cleaned;
Or it wasn't 100% dried;
Or it wasn't 100% lubed;

I don't know how well anything else cleans muzzleloaders beyond hot soapy water because that's all I've ever used...but it obviously works perfectly so I haven't bothered changing...I wonder if everyone who uses that method realizes after "cleaning" the bore, it then has to be rinsed with clean hot water to rinse the film off the bore...left behind by the dirty fouled cleaning water solution. If that's not done, someone could think they've just cleaned their rifle but in fact have left it completely coated with a liquid solution of BP fouling mess...if it was dried in place, then lube put over the top of it, I assume some sort of reaction would begin under the lube.

Another way is to apply lube over a bore that was thought to be dry but may in fact still have some trace mositure in it somewhere;

Lastly, not applying enough lube to cover and keep covered every square inch of the bore's surface...then humidity gets to it, etc.

I don't know of any other forces that come into play...

 

[cayugad]

Roundball -

After the first hot water bath w/soap I was getting clean patches. Normally this is where I would break out the solvent and scrub a little longer. Instead I ran a bore brush down the barrel and then continued with the soap and water bath. The patches still looked clean to me.

I then poured boiling hot water from a container, down the barrel filling the barrel and letting it drain out through the nipple port three times. The barrel was so hot at this point that I had to wear a leather glove just to handle it.

I then ran dry patches down the barrel until I could feel no moisture on them. After that is when I started putting the bore butter down the bore, swabbing it on pretty thick I thought...

I have been doing it this way now for a couple weeks and this was the first time I got the brown (looked almost like tobacco juice :: ) in color something or other on the patches.

I will see what happens next time I check it... So far, no adverse effect on the accuracy of the barrel..

 

[TexiKan]

Everyone has their own preferred method of cleaning their rifles. And the choice of lube is just about as strong. I haven't tried Natural Lube 1000 but it sounds similiar to the Young Country Lube 103. I started using it shortly after it came out and continue to use it to this day, although I now shoot with Lehigh Valley and prefer it. Yet I use Lube 103 as part of my final step in cleaning my gun.

Mind you, I've been shooting this same gun since the late 1970's, so it has seen a lot of Lube 103. I understand that one can use the lube on a fouled gun and not have to worry about cleaning it for a few days. Well, I was never brave enough to really test the theory but I did have to let the cleaning procedure go for almost two days. Cleaning was still easy and the fouling was soft and came out fine.

Like you, covering the barrel with the lube has made a big difference. It seems to load easier the next time I shoot. When I omitted this step and used other oils, it seemed to load harder.

Two years ago, one of the lugs came unsoldered from the rib of my rifle. While trying to solder it back, I noticed quite a bit of oil sweating from the rib and my solder attempt failed. I had to start over again and burn out the seasoned oil until the solder was able to "take."

The "seasoned" barrel seems to make a big difference. Lube 103 is harder to find and I tend to buy several when I can get it. Their instructions state to use hot water clean only and do not use solvents, chemicals or dish soap. I have been cheating and use dish soap.

Anyway, I can attest to using this lube without cleaning on occasion and my barrel continues to look good. :results:

TexiKan
_____________________

If you continue to do what you've always done, you will always get what you've always got.

 

[roundball]

I then poured boiling hot water from a container, down the barrel filling the barrel and letting it drain out through the nipple port three times. The barrel was so hot at this point that I had to wear a leather glove just to handle it.

Well, this may be what set the stage for it...I've seen some posts where people have claimed to experience this "flash rust" film, that can occur quickly if extremely hot water is used and the bore is not immediately / instantly dried out...only needs a minute or two and it'll form.

The lube then gets applied right over it, softens it some, then later when it's patch checked, the patches come out with color on them

 

[Huntinfool]

I used to use your method Roundball but after reading Dutch Shultz's methods and listening to the fellow that built my rifle I switched.

They both believe that metal is porous and that water especially hot water has a way of getting into the metal. And coming out later I wasn't aware of it but they made a good case for it.

There's a lot of folk who don't believe that you should use hot water they use cold water with the premise that it doesn't get into the metal as bad.

Now I'm not trying to start an argument I'm just repeating what I've heard from other sources. I'm glad your system works good for you! If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Hey the metal in your TC may be a better alloy than my longrifle barrel but all I know is since I quit using that stuff as lube I haven't had any rust film in there!

As a matter of fact the guy who gave me that Douglas Barrel told me to take a feel of it with a draw file. He said it wasn't as tough a metal as they use in a lot more modern guns due to law suits. He's their shop foreman also.

That's why Douglas went out of the ML barrel business they got sued by some idiot who double loaded his gun with smokeless powder. And lost a bunch of $$$.
Chuck

 

[Old Charlie]

I use boiling hot water on my guns and have never had one rust. I tried using some store bought cleaners a while back. But they just didn't seem to get the guns as clean . Went back to water with a little dish soap.
Old Charlie

 

[roundball]

I use boiling hot water on my guns and have never had one rust. I tried using some store bought cleaners a while back. But they just didn't seem to get the guns as clean . Went back to water with a little dish soap.
Old Charlie

I also use dishwashing detergent...one good squirt in a 5 gallon pail...really gets it squeaky clean like it's designed to on dishes...but I just use hot water out of the tap...water heater is set to 140 degrees...it steams but it's a long way from boiling...works for me

 

[cayugad]

Well as I said I have a .54 caliber barrel I have been cleaning the water/soap/bore butter way as a test barrel you might say... So far some suspicious results with the brown liquid (I really do not think it was rust) that swabbed out prior to shooting. Accuracy still holding in there. Loading about the same as the other rifles. Fowling about the same too.

Yesterday I shot my Flintlock Hawkins which I clean by a much more modern method of a soap and water bath followed by solvent patches, solvent brushing, more solvent patches, isopropyl patches, then dry patches before the final gun oil patches. Accuracy about the same (excellent! :: ), Loading shot to shot still easy, fowling about the same also.

I am starting to think that what ever method you feel comfortable with and have faith in, is the method to use. Both seem to be working although I have my doubts about down the road accuracy with the bore butter. I went through this once before..