More on goex

[Okie Hog]

I don't see any reason why they wouldn't sell GOEX

Money.

 

[Tenring]

I guess compared to other more sophisticated ways other companies make BP Goex was the US equivalent to low shelf GETO Black Powder. Take that for what it’s worth..

 

[CaptainKirk]

I don't see any reason why they wouldn't sell GOEX

One word; LIABILITY.

 

[longcruise]

One word; LIABILITY.

I don't see the liability connection??

They sold thousands of pounds of it while in production. Why would selling the means of production be a liability risk?

 

[CaptainKirk]

I don't see the liability connection??

They sold thousands of pounds of it while in production. Why would selling the means of production be a liability risk?

Because black powder is much easier to ignite accidentally, as has been proven over and over again. If you were CEO of Hodgdon and your liability insurance kept skyrocketing ( no pun intended) every time there was a mishap or explosion at your BP plant, (remember, they had their most recent incident only last summer at the Minden plant) and your insurer offered a substantial rate reduction if you pawned off your most hazardous product, which coincidentally was not profitable, what would you do? (this is just a hypothesis on my part, BTW)
Hoarding rushes not withstanding, how many pounds of black powder do you think GOEX actually sells during a "normal" year? Not many, I'm guessing.

 

[Brokennock]

Maybe some folks are mistaking selling the GOEX factory, with selling GOEX powder?

Because black powder is much easier to ignite accidentally, as has been proven over and over again. If you were CEO of Hodgdon and your liability insurance kept skyrocketing ( no pun intended) every time there was a mishap or explosion at your BP plant, (remember, they had their most recent incident only last summer at the Minden plant) and your insurer offered a substantial rate reduction if you pawned off your most hazardous product, which coincidentally was not profitable, what would you do? (this is just a hypothesis on my part, BTW)
Hoarding rushes not withstanding, how many pounds of black powder do you think GOEX actually sells during a "normal" year? Not many, I'm guessing.

You've just stated some good reasons for a company to sell the factory that produces a product that company no longer intended to produce.

 

[Okie Hog]

1. Sale of GOEX requires a buyer, maybe no one wants it.

2. The buyer could not immediately begin production of black powder: Licenses and permits are required. What happens if the neighbors no longer want GOEX and its explosions.

 

[longcruise]

One word; LIABILITY.

Because black powder is much easier to ignite accidentally, as has been proven over and over again. If you were CEO of Hodgdon and your liability insurance kept skyrocketing ( no pun intended) every time there was a mishap or explosion at your BP plant, (remember, they had their most recent incident only last summer at the Minden plant) and your insurer offered a substantial rate reduction if you pawned off your most hazardous product, which coincidentally was not profitable, what would you do? (this is just a hypothesis on my part, BTW)
Hoarding rushes not withstanding, how many pounds of black powder do you think GOEX actually sells during a "normal" year? Not many, I'm guessing.

Based on the question you originally replied to it seems that you were suggesting that Hodgdon would not want to sell the plant for liability reasons. They would incur no liability for selling the plant. Insurance would be on the buyer of the plant.

 

[CaptainKirk]

Based on the question you originally replied to it seems that you were suggesting that Hodgdon would not want to sell the plant for liability reasons. They would incur no liability for selling the plant. Insurance would be on the buyer of the plant.

No, I was suggesting that Hodgdon would not want to shoulder the liability of potential lawsuits from employees and community members injured in the event of another mishap, nor face mounting liability insurance payments, much like a reckless driver would incur after multiple accidents and claims. As if the GOEX plant has potentially become a "hot potato" that nobody wants to be left holding the bag with...if that makes sense?

 

[longcruise]

No, I was suggesting Hodgdon would likely not want to shoulder the legal and monetary liability.

I would think that would be a reason to sell the plant.

Regarding production, here is a quote from the Mad Monk.

"When they set up the Minden plant they set it up with 3 wheel mills brought over from a defunct plant in South Africa. These are Krupp built 5-ton wheel mills. GOEX quickly found that if they ran the normal batch size of a 5-ton mill they would quickly go broke. They found max batch size in the 5-ton mills to be around 300 pounds. No way could they have put out 8 million pounds a year out of that plant and to get 3 million pounds they would have had to run the mills 24 hours a day 7 days a week."

 

[sheriff john]

If Pyrodex pellets have any real BP in them, it's news to me. They require, REQUIRE 209 shotgun primers to work, and they do work.

I dont think Goex(or any real BP brand) to be "competition" for the substitutes. Just like my sidelocks have never had Pyrodex or 777 poured down their barrels, my inline has never had real BP. While I rarely use my inline(hasn't been shot in 2 years) it was designed to use the substitutes, and I feel they are better in inlines. I use three 50gr pyrodex pellets. I dont think any inline hunters (which is about all they're used for) CARE to change.

In my stash of old stuff, I found some Pyrodex pellets from May of '99. There are black rings around the base and also in a hole in the middle of the base unlike the rest of the pellet. Was told at the time (by whom I don't remember) that was black powder to help the pellets ignite. Haven't bought any pellets lately, don't know if those rings are still there nor what they are. They are 50 caliber pellets.

 

[CaptainKirk]

I would think that would be a reason to sell the plant.

My point exactly

 

[William Lincoln]

Liability is a prime reason. But just maybe there is another reason that we are unaware of that
is liability related. The Democrats are trying to remove statutory immunity from gun manufacturers.
Is there a similar push for ammo and powder? Are there plans to tighten access to Black powder?
Often times this info is not public. Unlike smokeless, Black powder is an explosive. With all these
weirdos being let across the border how long will it be before BP is abused again? The time will come when Black powder requires proof of identity and a background check to purchase. Are there things coming that could affect the BP market? Hopefully there is nothing evil brewing, but often we are the last to know.

 

[Tenring]

That’s exactly what the black rings are for, they used to come with a red pipe cleaner to put through the hole to pick them out. An older buddy of mine used those things because he was to lazy to use loose powder down the pipe, then he would prime with FFFF.

 

[User_Dan]

I actually helped write DuPont's bicentennial history in 2001-2002 and learned all about its black powder operations. Very sophisticated for that time in the 19th century. Those stone mixing buildings at Eleutherian Mills were built in such a way that should an explosion occur, then the direction of the blast would be directed away from the family's home, employee housing, and administrative buildings. When a vat did explode and some unfortunate employee was killed, they called it "going across the river," since the concussive force invariably flung him all the way over to the other bank. Pretty grim stuff but a necessary risk in those days in the powder industry.

Here's the book I helped write with prime author Adrian Kinnane, a former colleague and close friend of mine:

https://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Banks-Brandywine-Miracles-Science/dp/0801870593
LOL! Seems it's been marked down to $1.45.

I grabbed a copy. I like my local history, I can take a piss in the river out back and a few hours later It floats past the mixing building.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I worked at a company that was sold for over fifty million dollars to a competitor . The sale was finalised on a Tuesday, and Thursday they announced they were shutting it down! Yea they paid over fifty million for a plant just to shut it down! So will another powder company buy Goex?

 

[kipcarter]

I actually helped write DuPont's bicentennial history in 2001-2002 and learned all about its black powder operations. Very sophisticated for that time in the 19th century. Those stone mixing buildings at Eleutherian Mills were built in such a way that should an explosion occur, then the direction of the blast would be directed away from the family's home, employee housing, and administrative buildings. When a vat did explode and some unfortunate employee was killed, they called it "going across the river," since the concussive force invariably flung him all the way over to the other bank. Pretty grim stuff but a necessary risk in those days in the powder industry.

Here's the book I helped write with prime author Adrian Kinnane, a former colleague and close friend of mine:

https://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Banks-Brandywine-Miracles-Science/dp/0801870593
LOL! Seems it's been marked down to $1.45.

Thanks for the heads up...I just ordered it

 

[stephenprops1]

Hodgdon's BP subs are intended for a different market than GOEX BP is. Flintlocks compared to bolt-action in-lines with 209 primers. I don't think there is much competition there. Guys who shoot Pyrodex pellets will never touch Goex BP and vise versa. I don't see any reason why they wouldn't sell GOEX

I don't agree with your saying there is no cross between inline shooters and traditional black powder shooters. There are some who have done both. I started out with percussion muzzleloaders, then I went to an inline. While I liked my inline rifle I went back to traditional guns because I like them best. I now have 2 flintlocks in my collection too.

 

[toot]

I have used TRIPPLE 7- T-7, in my flint locks with out any problems. I do not use 10 or so grains under the t-7, charge. of course you have to prime with a BP, AS as a pan charge.

 

[Dave Fox]

Communicated with a couple friends who were execs at DuPont before retirement. They checked-in with friends still active in DuPont. Word they get is DuPont, no longer even vaguely the company that once manufactured black powder, is in no position to resume production and is not contemplating the attempt.