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Most Authentic Bess?

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Hey Musketeer,

Nice pistols on Middlesex Village site. There is a problem. I cannot send an E-mail to them as it appears their E-mail address has a problem. My E-mails are returned each time I use the [email protected] address. Also they do not have a mail address. Could they have gone broke? ::
 
...the Second Model or Short Land pattern was not officially issued 'til 1769! As far as the Pedersoli goes, although it says 1762 on the lock, it is definitely a Second Model repro. Since you are looking for a Bess which "could" have been owned by a civy in 1756, I would stay away from the Pedersoli, not due to their quality, which is excellent, but because the 2nd Mod. just wouldn't be right for the period.

Well, I can always broaden my persona's period to accommodate the Second Pattern. ::

Here's the site where I got some of my information about the Second Pattern being 1756.

Brown Bess
 
Another possibility would be to contact Otter Creek Rifle Works www.ottercreekrifleworks.com

They use Brown Bess & Charleville replicas available on the market to back-produce earlier style guns. The Besses can be de-farbed of Italian markings and reworked to appear as shortened Long Land Pattern muskets or shortened Indian trade guns. The Charlevilles come out looking like M.1828 muskets or M.1697 Marine muskets. Maybe not 100% but pretty close for shooting purposes. Don't know what the rates are but may be worth checking out. (802) 453-2784
 
Yes- by all means, buy the Red Coats book from Track, - as well, note the vent position of the muskets in that publication.- rather 'striking'.
 
The brits issued left over surplus what ever to the civilians and used them as recuits to fight the frenchys and injuns when needed. And thats a fact. So it would appear that your civie model would be like a first mod.... :imo:
 
Hey, Rabbitears, try the e-mail address posted by Liver eatin' Johnson. That's the one I use. In fact, I just e-mailed Pete last night, and received a reply in less than an hour! As far as the mail address goes, I believe they currently only do business by e-mail or phone. Apparently, they just moved up to their current location in NH recently, and are still sorting things out. Yes, their pistols do look nice, and I'm going to order a British Dragoon from them within the week! :thumbsup:

P.S. Daryl! Those pics you posted of the Bess with the knife..... :shocking::master: :master: :master: :master: :master: :RO: :thumbsup:
 
The Knife is THE bayonette for the musket. Yes- it makes a nice knife too. Apparently, they were very popular with the Indians in the Lower Canada region around Lake Huron.
 
Daryl, we must be thinking of two different sets of pics. I'm talking about the ones with the Long Land Bess laying on the dark pink colored cloth w/ the knife next to it. This is clearly an "Arkansas toothpick" style dagger, and not a bayonet. In any case...... :master: :master: :master: :master: :master: :thumbsup:
 
Daryl, we must be thinking of two different sets of pics. I'm talking about the ones with the Long Land Bess laying on the dark pink colored cloth w/ the knife next to it. This is clearly an "Arkansas toothpick" style dagger, and not a bayonet. In any case...... :master: :master: :master: :master: :master: :thumbsup:

Its actually called a plug bayonet. Inserts into the bore of the weapon.
 
Makanaut, thanks! I wasn't aware of this type of bayonet before, but I looked it up, and sure enough, you're right!
My apologies to Daryl. :redface: You really do learn something new every day (especially on this site). Thanks, again. :sorry::thumbsup:
 
Thats why I like this forum so much. Such a broad range of knowledge and experience from some of these folks. Now you can help me out and tell me what kind of shell I have posted in the 1812 forum. :thumbsup:
 
Well, makanaut, my knowledge and experience would indicate that what you have there is a large, metallic ball of some sort..... :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: Truthfully, I have no idea! :sorry: :thumbsup:
 
I volunteer at a National Park where we dress period for Rev. war and the National Park Service buys many Bess's and Charlevilles from Pedersoli. They hold up good and are reliable. Some of them that we fire everyday are going on thirty years old!
 
Treat yourself to the softcover Red Coat and Brown Bess available from Dixie Gun Work's Pionee Press ($8.95)

I also have that book, excellent source of info.

I briefly owned a Pedersoli Bess a few years ago. Although I was forced to return it for a refund before I had a chance to shoot it (sudden financial emergency), the quality was outstanding. Unlike their long rifles, Pedersoli claims their Bess is an exact copy of an original.
 
I was all set to buy a bess from "Disc. General" but coudn't find anyone here who had one.

Pedersoli makes a very nice looking 2nd model or Short Land Pattern Bess. And unlike the ones made in India the Pedersoli's have Walnut stocks. Someone said that there are a couple problems with Pedersoli's Bess. It has the wrong swivels and wrong date/stamps on the lock. Any Bess experts to confirm this?

I'm really leaning toward a Pedersoli unless someone can tell me more about the ones offered by Disc. General & Loyalist Arms.
 
Cat'n Jim- I sent you a private message re: Disc. General's Sea Service Musket that I was sorrowfully disappointed in and had to send back for refund. After explaining as best I could, my findings on the fit, fouling almost escaping, etc, Robert from Disc. Gen. aske that I send it backfor testing. The fact that he is going to test this piece when it obviously needs to be thrown in the garbage, is beyond me at this time. If it doens't blow, he will declare it SAFE. I guess, lousy, will probalby fail with any rust at all, doens't matter. I did ask, that if the breeching of the 1728 French St. E'Tienne Musket was of proper quality, to send one of those instead of refunding my $720.00. The result will be interesting. I am still concerned about gaps between the plug and bore proper. They feel their's is A/OK as it only has a 1/10" gap while the Pedersoli Brown Bess they took apart had 1/4" gap. Also, they are only going to proof to 200gr. and 2 balls as he thinks pressure has a ceiling - in other words, his knowledge is lacking. 200 gr. and 2 balls WITHOUT tight patching is like shoting 100 gr. and a tight one, so the pressurse of their tests might be very low indeed. I fired it ougly 50 times, but had fouling rigth back to the plate, about 1/8" deep fouling, in the gouge between the plate and threads.
: Where the top picture shows threads ground out to less than bore dia., is where the arrow points, between the plate and the rear thread. In cutting this groove, they've cut off approximately 4 threads which might have contained the fouling, but I doubt it due to the loose sloppy fit of the threads. The groove was cut for no known reason as it serves NO purpose. As everything I have said is true, and as I have not declared this piece to be unsafe, I should not be open for law suit, as one unfortunate person was a couple years ago when he declared them to be unsafe. HE ended up paying as the breech failed to blow. I bet he wasn't allowed to do the testing.
: As the threads are not standard, they cannot be repaired by using a 7/8X14 schedule 5 bolt for the threaded section of the plug. The barrel needs to be re-cut on a lathe as the internal threads are uneven, torn and ripped, and then the plug needs to be turned on the lathe as well then welded to the plate system they've used instead of the threaded section supplied. Has anyone ever seen this 'breech plate system before? It's new to me.
Sea%20service%20Plug%202.jpg

Pictures%20006.jpg
 
You might also want to check out Middlesex Village Trading Company. They have the India made Bess's for even less than Loyalist or the Discriminating General, and they come with a hammerstall, flash guard and bayonet. And they are located in the U.S. and not Canada, so you can get a musket with the vent already drilled with no problem.
 
BTW- that 22 1/2 tousanths, is less than a 25% thread on a 7/8X14 according to my measurments. No wonder the threads leak like a sieve.
 

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