Most 'Authentic' Hawken

[rich pierce]

I agree, I built a Sharon Hawken in 1979 or so and I was very pleased with everything about that gun. I'd jump on another. I built a Sharon Trade rifle in 1977 or 78 and it is my favorite bad weather deer rifle. For that gun I have a Sharon .50 rifle barrel, a Green Mountain 20 ga smooth, and a Green Mountain .54 rifle barrel for it. The .50 Sharon is an accurate one, though it has been shot the most.

 

I dont know anything about Photography, the art of photography, the rules for layout, scale etc. But I do know a good thing when I see it, and that photo of you standing there with that rifle is really well done. Its got whatever it takes to make a good wall hanging artwork. The ol mountain man in it looks like the real thing, has Charisma and that fearless wonderer look. I had to save it in my hawken files collection, will have to get more info about you and the picture so I know what ive got when I browse through my files.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

There is a .58 caliber Sharon Hawken for sale at Track's web site as well as several other Hawkens.

 

Im still wanting to find the slower twist, mainly because of the Tradition

FWIW - The Hawken brothers rifled their barrels at 1:48 twist - I've never had a problem using roundballs at this twist in my Hawkem even with heavy loads.......to have a traditional Hawken then 1:48 is the PC way to go....

 

.to have a traditional Hawken then 1:48 is the PC way to go....

Thanks Wolf, I have been wondering about that, since the Hawken shop rifle is 1:48. Im currently shooting that twist, and honestly think its doing better than I am. Accepting 1:48 broadens my flintlock Hawken options by leaps and bounds.

Regardless of the P.C. of Flint on the Hawk. If I cant Ronnyvoo that way, then ill either not Ronnyvoo as a Hawken totin mountainman, or do another gun further down the road for "period correctness".

P.S. Thats really fine leather work youve got going on there Chuck. Might find myslef doing the Videos in the near future.

 

[Tahquamenon]

As I remember the Ithacas were produced by a joint venture with Browning. They were what we all wanted back in the mid 70's and were mighty fine rifles.

Got that right. :RO:

I drove three hours a few years ago to inspect one for sale and it turned out to be a neglected POS.

I'll add one to the ML crib some day.

 

Regardless of the P.C. of Flint on the Hawk. If I cant Ronnyvoo that way, then ill either not Ronnyvoo as a Hawken totin mountainman, or do another gun further down the road for "period correctness".

Some notes from the AMM email list..at these dates the Hawkens would more than likely have been flint - that's based on looking at a ton of other invoices for the period and by far the greatest amount of guns going west were still flintlock

Hawkens may not have been the most common rifle, but it can be positively documented that many of them did go to rendezvous!

Invoice for the 1836 rendezvous. Here
are some line items from that list:
4 pairs pistols Iron barrels
2 Am Rifle @$17.50
7 " " @$11.00
8 Hawkins " from $20 to $26
84 N. W. Guns @$4.50
2 Rifles Hawkins @$24

The invoice for the 1837 rendezvous (the one painted by A. J. Miller)includes these:
36 N. W. Guns best quality @$4.50
5 Am. Rifles steel mounted @$19
10 Hawkens Rifles @$24
12 N W Guns @$4.5

These invoices are in the American Fur Co. Papers, Missouri Historical Society (Y8, Z13-15, Z158, Z298).
For at least these two years, the majority of rifles sent to rendezvous were in fact Hawkens. So if the mid 1830's or later is your period of interest, then carry a Hawken proudly, but you're going to have to have the above facts handy when you go to rendezvous, because a lot of
people have bought into the myth that they aren't authentic.

Of course to make it "simpler" any of the trade rifles available at the time - Henry being the most common - were definitely made in flint............

 

[Bear Rider]

Gray Wolf,

I hate to disagree with you, but in no way does 10 out of 113 rifles or 10 out of 63 constitute a majority. A strong showing, yes, but hardly a majority. A VERY strong showing, considering the price differential.

 

[Rebel]

I think maybe he means the majority of RIFLES. A lot of those others were smoothbore Tradeguns.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

I dont know anything about Photography, the art of photography, the rules for layout, scale etc. But I do know a good thing when I see it, and that photo of you standing there with that rifle is really well done. Its got whatever it takes to make a good wall hanging artwork. The ol mountain man in it looks like the real thing, has Charisma and that fearless wonderer look. I had to save it in my hawken files collection, will have to get more info about you and the picture so I know what ive got when I browse through my files.

Pic was taken in Sunlight Basin Wyoming.

Got a pic of Bill Fuller with one of his original Hawkens here on my homepage. (haven't updated the page in many a moon)

http://hstrial-rchambers.homestead.com/Index.html

 

Yep what Rebel said - the majority of RIFLES on those lists are Hawkens....

Things could, and often did, get a bit rowdy at the old NAPR national rondys.)

Not just the NAPR - remember the 1974 NMLRA in Buffalo, Wy - Some guy pulled a knife on Bluejacket and cut his trigger finger real bad so that he had to shoot left handed and still won....
Was there for the first NAPR on Ed Webber's ranch in 1973 and the second ditto in 1974.......

 

[Stony]

750k2: Yes I prefer the A&H to the Lyman. Both are nice rifles but I choose the A&H. It's browned and just looks real nice. I'm still breaking the barrel in but it handles a 90 gr 3f load very nice. I have to aim high but that gives me plenty of front sight to file down and get it right.

Steve, to answer your 5 questions:

1. The only flint Hawken is a pre-St Louis rifle. No "plains" or "mountain" rifle has been found in flint.

2. Hawkens were pretty much iron, brass was used a lot and pretty common for kentucky and pennsylvania rifles.

3. Some rifles had patch boxes, some didn't. If you want one, get one.

4. Yes, browning is proper.

5. Early Hawkens had a flat section of the trigger guard up against the stock between the triggers and the scroll where your little finger would be. Later Hawkens were curved in that section. The vast majority of "hawkens" have the curved guard.

If you want an "early" Hawken, go full stock, "flat" trigger guard and flintlock. Most people will not give you a real hassle with that.

 

[quote
The invoice for the 1837 rendezvous (the one painted by A. J. Miller)includes these:
10 Hawkens Rifles @$24
So if the mid 1830's or later is your period of interest, then carry a Hawken proudly[/quote]
Hawken, 54 caliber, Flintlock, 1:48 twist, Proudly, in the near future. :RO:

 

[MosesWhite]

I own a Lyman GPR, and it's great.

If you want the closest thing to a REAL Hawken, you need to get a rifle from Don Stith.

Don Stith's Hawken

You'll pay more, but it WILL look like an original Hawken.

Sorry to report but Don Stith is deceased.

 

[CoHiCntry]

Sorry to report but Don Stith is deceased.

And this thread is almost 20 years old…

 

[LME]

A production gun would be the Uberti Santa Fe Hawken. Those can be a little hard to find, but worth the effort. Yes, Don Stith makes a very fine Hawken.

Santa fe , Ithaca are fair good copies. The Lyman is a very good rifle but the snell turns me off.The old Cherry Corners was bought out by Ithaca. These rifles are made by Uberti now and are still excellent in all areas!

 

[Notchy Bob]

I know this is an old thread. A lot of the rifles mentioned in it are no longer in production.

I think the most authentic Hawken rifle you can get now, without going full custom, would be one assembled from the Hawken Shop kit. Next to that might be the Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken. The Investarms Gemmer has inherited the position once occupied by the Lyman Great Plains Rifle, and it is evidently the same rifle with a new name. It (and the old GPR) superficially resemble Hawken mountain rifles , but they differ from the originals in too many particulars to enumerate. They are not authentic Hawken replicas, but I understand they are straight shooters and solid, reliable performers. They are close enough for a lot of people. Bob Woodfill wrote an article and did a video about modifying the Investarms Gemmer kit to bring the finished rifle closer in appearance to the original Hawkens. He did a very good job on the rifle he built.

Best regards,


Notchy Bob

 

[Dale Lilly]

A production gun would be the Uberti Santa Fe Hawken. Those can be a little hard to find, but worth the effort. Yes, Don Stith makes a very fine Hawken.

I have a Santa Fe Hawken made by Uberti, very near the original and very nice. They are hard to find but sometimes undervalued, I bought mine for quite a lot less than my Lyman GPS [California pawn shop on internet].

 

[Flintleather]

I was just curious about who makes Hawken rifles that are closest in look to the original ones. I have a TC Hawken percussion and I'd like to make the move to something as close to what what Jake and Sam Hawken made. I'd also like something somewhat affordable. And since I'm asking the impossibel, one whose barrel is optimized for patched ball, not Maxi-balls and such.

Is this an impossible dream?

Steve

Pick ya up a copy of this book, lots of info on Hawkens.

 

[Absoroka]

If you want to afford it, I believe John Bergman is still building Hawken rifles. I have one that he made for me with a Hoyt barrel and use it when I hunt critters that will hunt you back. (like in Sunlight Basin)