Most comfortable stock in your opinion

[Spikebuck]

[ I THINK the OP was referring to guns that are by and large, ones that could be distinctly called AMERICAN long rifle designs.

The original post didn't specifically limit American long rifle designs as a condition, just most comfortable stock design, but that clarifies your response. :v

 

[bpd303]

For me as far as comfort goes, it strictly depends upon the caliber or gauge I'm shooting at the time. In 50 or smaller I prefer the hooked butt plate and the upper arm hold. In the heavier calibers 58 and larger I prefer the flatter butt plates.

 

[flyfisher76544]

Lancaster is my favorite style.

 

[Dphar]

Hello there mighty hunters and shooters

Here is another question and at the same time invitation to post some gun porn. Hope and wish you all to have a great discussion.

In your opinion, what is the most comfortable style rifle to shoot/hunt with?

I've come across few different styles of rifles. 5 to be exact: Virginia, Lancaster, Bedford, Ohio and finally Tennessee and handled these as well. I wasn't really uncomfortable with neither of them. But couldn't shoot all of them.

Some people say the more straight stocks absorb more recoil and aren't as cheek slappy, others say it's a matter of technique.

Let's hear some opinions and perchaps see some goodies.

By the middle of the golden age most kentucky rifle stocks were unfit for calibers over 50. By 1830-40 it was worse.
Rifles of Colonial America #48 is a good design and with the typical buttplate of the time will tolerate large calibers if the pitch is correct.

Dan

 

[sleeperNY]

I like early Lancaster styles best.


Jim

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Personally I prefer the Early Lancaster, but that's because I have one that fits me well and is beautifully built.

I did custom gun fittings for the Orvis Company for about 6 years because they sell custom-fit shotguns. There are a number of variables that come into play when getting a comfortable fit on a gun. One of the most important is cast-off or cast-on (cast-off for right handed shooters and cast-on for left). Another measurement of primary importance in felt recoil is the drop at heel and drop at comb.

What the cast describes is how far off the center-line of the butt is from the plane of the center-line of the barrel. Cast doesn't need to be much for most people. With the majority of folks it's about 1/4". With some I have set it at 1/8" and with others as much as 1/2". This measurement is adjusted so that when you properly mount the gun your eye is directly over the center-line of the barrel. Properly done, the gun will always sight very easily (always present the same sight picture) and will NEVER give you cheek slap because the recoil is directionally at an angle away from your cheek, not directly back into it.

One of our custom-build gunsmiths once made the statement to me that "off the shelf" guns were guns that didn't fit anybody because the centerline of the butt was in exactly the same plane as the centerline of the barrel. Most people tilt their head over slightly with this type of butt to sight the gun/rifle, and cheek slap is common. A better technique with this type of butt is to turn your nose towards the barrel and sight out of the inside corner of your eye instead of leaning your head over to get the sight picture. That will keep the recoil at an angle to your cheek and avoid cheek slap even on "Roman Nose" stocks.

With a proper gun mount, the drop at heel and drop at comb combine to place your eye directly over the top of the barrel. That horizontal alignment along with the vertical alignment of the cast-off or cast-on allow you to easily shoot where you are looking. The drop at comb determines where your cheek meets the barrel. The drop at heel determines where the butt of the gun meets your shoulder. Gun stocks like the Lancaster which offer a pretty straight line between the two result in a lighter felt recoil than one with a 4" difference between them such as you'll see in Lehigh, and Buck's County guns. The bigger the difference between the drop at heel and drop at comb, the more the recoil will pound down on you instead of just back.

The pitch is the angle that the butt meets your shoulder and if it's too much it accentuates that "pounding down" type of recoil. Notice on the Buck's County rifles that the slightly extended toe-plate helps keep that pitch from being as much as you'll often find on a Lehigh rifle.

As long as we're talking about the butt of the rifle, the wider the butt is, the easier is is to handle heavier loads with larger caliber balls. As we moved into the Golden Age of Longrifles after the Rev War (1790-1830 or so), you'll notice that the calibers used went down to typically .40 and .45, and the butts got thinner with more crescent shapes to them. Lighter ball with lighter loads gave less recoil and afforded more stylistic options without becoming uncomfortable to shoot.

I'll stop now....

Twisted_1in66 :hatsoff:

 

[Vaino]

If one looks in a mirror it's quite evident that the eye is above the chest and not the upper arm....on a normal, erect human being. So....if the gun is mounted below the eye which would be the chest/inside the shoulder, no further adjustments have to be made....or any contortions made.

Grew up ruffed grouse hunting and I very early on learned that the shotgun mounted below the eye yielded more grouse. Can't even imagine an upper arm mount where I'd have to "crane my neck" and waste valuable time aligning the bbl. It's not only time consuming, it's also an unnatural position for the human body.

Many shooters from young on acquire faulty shooting habits because of lacking advice from accomplished shooters and just "think" the way they shoot is the right way or are unaware that their contortions are unncessary. Standing in front of a mirror should enlighten.....Fred

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Twisted-1in66,
As a fitter and historian who just cant make himself write that much in one sitting I say DITTO! :thumbsup:

 

[sumoj275]

I really like my Lancaster style, but have nothing to really compare it to except the average mass produced CVA, Traditions, and InvestaArms to compare it to. Take that back, I have a English made 1858 Parker Hale Enfield that is very comfortable to shoot too but it is a .45 cal rifle.

 

[Blackbruin]

I like earlier styles and bucks or lehighs like said before that are properly fitted and aren't just genericly done as by many.

 

[Dphar]

If one looks in a mirror it's quite evident that the eye is above the chest and not the upper arm....on a normal, erect human being. So....if the gun is mounted below the eye which would be the chest/inside the shoulder, no further adjustments have to be made....or any contortions made.

Grew up ruffed grouse hunting and I very early on learned that the shotgun mounted below the eye yielded more grouse. Can't even imagine an upper arm mount where I'd have to "crane my neck" and waste valuable time aligning the bbl. It's not only time consuming, it's also an unnatural position for the human body.

Many shooters from young on acquire faulty shooting habits because of lacking advice from accomplished shooters and just "think" the way they shoot is the right way or are unaware that their contortions are unncessary. Standing in front of a mirror should enlighten.....Fred

I suggest you look into free rifle buttplates used for offhand and schuetzen rifle stances that are also used with hooked buttplates and palm rests. Both are for best off hand shooting and generally have the non-shooting should pointed more down range than shotgun shooters would think appropriate.
Rifles are NOT shotguns and the best stance for POINTING at running or flying game is not the best for offhand shooting since offhand shots with the rifle are generally AIMED at stationary or slow moving targets and are meant to be placed with precision.
Thus the crescent buttplate is DESIGNED to be shot off the arm. Many of the deep, narrow crescents seen on later rifles simply cannot be used otherwise.
This is what limits many 1820-1860 American rifle stock designs to squirrel calibers.

Heavy recoiling rifles must be shot as one would a shotgun, shoulder pocket and need shotgun buttstock designs with the proper pitch and cast off as needed. Some early American rifles will fill this bill such as the Dickert I mentioned as #48 in RCA it is featured in color in "Moravian Gunmaking of the American Revolution".
English rifles are generally stocked like fowlers and will have wide, deep buttstocks with large shotgun buttplates and combs nearly parallel to the bore. In a rifle of suitable weight these will not "hurt" the shooter even with elephant loads if the shooter is in shape and used to recoil.

Dan

 

[Vaino]

I mount a shotgun and rifle the same.....don't do much target shooting, mostly shoot at game. Any movement after the gun is mounted on the chest/inside shoulder below the eye, is to me, wasted time and yields positions that aren't natural. But people can shoot the way they want....Fred

 

[DEWB]

I think it may have alot to do with how you are built. I shoot almost everything off of my arm when I am shooting off hand weather its got a flat butt or a cresent. It comes up to my eye and I don't have to scrunch up on the stock. If I try to shoot the other way it doesn't feel as natural and I have to scrunch up on the stock. But I am long and lacky and I have found that I need about 3 1/4" drop to line up the sights. I have sighted some guns that I just can't see the sights without turning my head sideways and laying it on the stock, they just don't work for me. We are all different so we have to find what works for each of us. Dew

 

[Dphar]

I mount a shotgun and rifle the same.....don't do much target shooting, mostly shoot at game. Any movement after the gun is mounted on the chest/inside shoulder below the eye, is to me, wasted time and yields positions that aren't natural. But people can shoot the way they want....Fred

Perhaps you should start shooting offhand in competition and bet some money on the outcome. If you have shooters of the quality I shoot against you will soon be looking for ways to better your score and in offhand shooting stance is critical.
The shotgun stance is not the most accurate with a rifle this is a simple fact and can be proven by watching people shooting offhand in almost any discipline where offhand shooting is part of the course of fire. I suggest HP silhouette which is all offhand or BPCR silhouette where the chickens are shot offhand. The people who do well don't use a shotgun stance, its more like a schuetzen stance and the rifles are often shot off the arm or shoulder joint rather than the shoulder "pocket".
I think I stated before that shotgun shooting is not rifle shooting and competition is not the same as hunting with rifle or shotgun.
The most comfortable/suitable stock will depend on the recoil level of the load being shot, what the firearm will be used for.
While a shotgun, for optimum results, must be carefully fit to the shooter, what would by shotguns standards, be an ill fitting rifle will shoot very well for the shooter since sight alignment is not dependent on how the shooters face contacts the rifle. When shooting to 600-1000 yards with a BPCR its is often impossible to get the face on the stock in any meaningful way due to the elevation of the rear sight. Its impossible to stock for this since the rifle would then be useless at shorter ranges where the sight is lower. While a consistent HOLD is critical, a proper shotgun cheek weld is impossible.
Shotguns and rifles, in a great many cases are apples and oranges when it comes to stocking and shooting stance. If this were not the case Flintlock rifles in American would have been stocked like fowlers as they were in England where shotguns were and are the "norm".

Dan

 

[Vaino]

I don't shoot at targets in rifle competition where you mainly have a lot of time to get adjusted. When hunting, you shoot from the position you're presently in which constantly varies. When a ruffed grouse flushes, there's no time to "fiddle around" w/ one's stance or gun mounting...you just shoot. Same goes for jump shooting deer.

Did a lot of trap and skeet shooting and in trap shooting you have a lot of time to get adjusted...not so much time in skeet but "visisible signs of mounting the gun" is really a joke....all it takes is a slight movement and that meets the requirements. In both trap and skeet gun fit is paramount and never saw a upper arm mount.

I'm not really concerned how people mount and shoot their guns.... but again standing in front of a mirror does reveal a lot as to where the eye is located in relation to the upper body......Fred

 

[kaintuck]

The ONLY rifle I could ever say was perfect offhand mount to ME is the older savage lever action rifles......*sigh*

and browning sweet sixteen shotguns.....*sigh*

now I do like the offset on a lancaster style~but, who has the PERFECT rifle????

 

[hoochiepapa]

Who has the perfect rifle? One who has built his own.

 

[Dphar]

The ONLY rifle I could ever say was perfect offhand mount to ME is the older savage lever action rifles......*sigh*

and browning sweet sixteen shotguns.....*sigh*

now I do like the offset on a lancaster style~but, who has the PERFECT rifle????

A number or people here seem to be mixing shotgun and rifle shooting. While its nice to have a rifle that comes up nice and the shooter is looking down the sights for most uses how the rifle holds on target in more important.
How does it fit sitting or prone? Both are positions I use when ever I can when hunting. In hunting I try to never shoot game without a rest of some sort, though its not always possible due to terrain or situation.
Another thing we should think about in the historical context is that most rifle matches were shot FROM A REST. Shooting off hand was thought to be "a poor test of a rifle". Heavy flintlock rest rifles were known both in Germany and America in the 18th c.
Shotguns are made just about opposite to how an accurate rifle is made. SGs are made with lightweight barrels and generally are light as is feasible for a gauge as to allow fast mounting and fast swinging with the target.
Rifles are made, those designed to shoot competitively are intentionally make heavy to make them steadier and off the rest to dampen recoil. Movement of the rifle under recoil is a major factor in accuracy since the more the rifle moves under recoil the more likely it is to "throw a shot". This is why many ML "chunk" and rest rifles are heavy. The barrel time is long and the mass of the rifle slows movement before the ball clears the muzzle. So comparing shotguns with rifles is often a mistake. One of the problems with modern hunting rifles is in their light weight which makes it very difficult to shoot them well offhand. They are too much like a shotgun. But overweight and out of shape hunters demand them. Using the idea that they carry it more than they shoot it. But if the hunter cannot adequately place the shot because the rifle is too light a wiggly then he just as well pack along a four foot 2x2 and leave the rifle at home. But few see it this way.
The primary purpose of the rifle is to PLACE THE SHOT ACCURATELY. If the hunter insists on using a 5-6 pound rifle that generates sharp recoil in big game calibers and is difficult to hold on target and due to a combination of, flinching due to recoil, inability to hold the rifle steady and often far too little practice, he misses or worse blows a leg off the game what is the point?
Again comparing rifles and shotguns is like comparing apples and pineapples. Its a DIFFERENT discipline with different requirements. But shotgun shooters often are incapable of or unwilling to seeing this and frankly, based on experiences with a certain gun club are often, at some level, hostile to rifle shooting.

Dan

 

[ZUG]

I have shot and still shoot rifle, pistol, and shotgun competitively and totally agree with Dan :hatsoff: . They are all different in how you position yourself toward the target, and how you hold the weapon. Any one can hit the target some of the time with any stance or gun position but if you want to win each weapon and shooting discipline has it's own style :v .

 

[Col. Batguano]

yes and every position has a different face / comb / shoulder / butt plate orientation too. Look at how adjustable the competition free rifles are so as to be shot in the different positions.