Muzzleloader Magazine Article

[Desert Rat]

In the newest edition of Muzzleloader Magazine there is an article titled "The Class of '06: Part One" It talks about the level of expierence/expertise of the men of the L&C expedition and how they influenced/taught others the tricks of the trade of living and trapping in the Rockies. The author compares their levels of expierence with college degrees in terms of the "rocky mountian college". He states at the begining of the expedition all of the Corps had or were at least at a "Bachelors Degree" level which I would agree with seeinig as how L&C took the time to take the best with them that they could. He also states that 3 of the members were at a "Masters" level, Lewis, Clark and Doulliard. Doulliard I would agree with, Clark I could possibly agree with because of his family history espicailly with brother George. The one I question is Lewis. I don't think he had the expierence to be consisdered in the class of having a "Masters" degree. While he was in the military and had some skills and a great deal of education, and I'm sure he could fend for himself reasonably well, was he really that good? I have no doubt and agree with the author of the article that by the end of the trip few would of had the credintials of anyone in the Corps and they would be the undisputed experts. Would you agree with the analogy and Lewis's "mountaineer" abilities?

 

[Will Bison]

I would never compare their expertise to any form of college but rather to a high tech trade school. In that regard they excel in education. In terms of college years/credits they would have to rate very high in earned credits but lacked the required classes not in the core areas.

The fact that they all survived the expedition (the one case of peritonitis would have occured in spite of) speaks well of the group and individual skills displayed. Also consider the interpersonal relationships required of such an expedition. It was a rare event that they went after each other, teamwork seems to have generally prevailed. Under similar circumstances today, professional jealousy would come into play.

I'd give them all an "A" in survival.

 

[Cruzatte]

While I found the article interesting, I thought the collegiate metaphore a bit overdrawn. Sometimes I thought they got off lucky. But if Potts, Weiser, and Drouillard, maybe even Cruzatte himself (we'll never know for sure) were so all fired brilliant, they sure got killed dead by the Blackfeet in later journies up river.

the other Cruzatte

 

[wulf]

They made it there and they made it back..That was a long way.....nuff said.

 

[Old Charlie]

If you stay to long on the field of combat your luck will run out, no matter how good you are.
Old Charlie

 

[paco97]

My opinion is that Lewis can be considered a masters level in the outdoors from my minute research. He spent lots of time outdoors growing up, he took Thomas Jeffersons advice and walked instead of riding a horse. TJ believed that riding horses would create a lazy generation. I also think, but not sure, that Lewis even went barefoot at times in the woods. Plus take into account all the preparing and teaching he received while living with Jefferson. His whole life up until the corps was essentially spent preparing for this expedition.

This is why he went crazy aftewards and killed himself. He worked his whole life to do this trip and when it was over he had nothing left to do. He was a man of the outdoors not a politician.

 

[faw3]

A real intresting question, wish I had read enough about the "trip" to give a answer worth a damn. Will Bison may be right about how we see it, but thats not the Qs, all things considered everyone is right they got to the end and back, and if ya stay out in the rain long enough your going to get wet, sometimes really wet, and you drown.Fred :hatsoff: think I'll have to ck out that mag.

 

FWIW - the "Rocky Mountain College" was a period term used by the mountaineers/trappers of the 1830's era, thus the authors use of it in his Muzzmag article.......for further info on it's use at the time see Osborne Russell and Bernard De Voto.....

 

One thing I'd say about this metaphor is that the 'Rocky Mountain College' was pretty much in the development stages in 1806. It was pretty much new ground for these folks since the land, people and animals West of the Arikara and Mandan was relatively unknown at that point. However, their lives on the frontier did prepare them for it to a degree. Traveling even in the relatively 'safe' east at that point required quite a bit of trail-savy. In fact, years later when Lewis died or commited suicide on the the Natchez Trace, it was still a dicey place to travel in.

Both Lewis and Clark were chosen primarily for their military skills in marshalling their men and their abilities to adapt and overcome without direct supervision as opposed to their experience 'skinning griz'. Each had their own specialties. Lewis was more the thinker of the two, and hence was given the crash courses in zoology and botany before the trip. Clark was more the strict military man who could be depended on to get it done. He later used his experience from the expedition became quite the statesman with the Indian tribes on the fronteir.

It was a good article. The one nit-picky thing I noticed was his description of Droulliard going out alone when he was killed by the Blackfoot. James' and Menard's accounts state that after saying he was 'too much of an Indian to be caught by Indians', he went out with a couple of Shawnee or Delaware. His companions were killed a short distance away from where Droulliard was surrounded on horseback and killed and dismembered. He died a warrior's death, but wasn't alone.

Sean

 

[faw3]

Gray Wolf will do . Got 2 yrs of Muzloader, and 2 yrs back issu's like I have here as far back as 67 so far, lots of neat stuff in the old ones Ive never seen any other place. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[Desert Rat]

Interesting view points, I didn't realize or have the full skinny on Lewis's upbringing. I like the Tech school commparison, it is probably more accurate but then they didn't ahve such a thing back then so wouldn't know the term.

 

[JohnS]

I agree with the military background assessment. The military discipline, and they were a military group in spite of the peaceful mission, was likely part of the reason they were able to accomplish their mission and all return alive. The fur trade outfits also adopted a military style organization in later years.

 

[crockett]

Idon't know that much about it but from memory I thought Clark was more the outdoorsman of the two.

 

[Desert Rat]

That's what I thought as well. Right now I'm reading a book on W.C. that is really good. According to the Author "Billy's" brother George was actually Jefferson's first choice to lead the expedition. I haven't gotten all of the details out of it yet but it's great food for thought.

 

Clark was definitely the more solid and tested of the two. As I remember it Lewis was fairly green by comparison at the time, but had close ties with Jefferson and his family. I don't even remember what commision he held. Lt. maybe? I think he proved himself to be Clark's equal on the trip. Been a long time since I read the journals.

Sean

 

[paco97]

According to the Author "Billy's" brother George was actually Jefferson's first choice to lead the expedition. I haven't gotten all of the details out of it yet but it's great food for thought.

George Rogers Clark was indeed the first person that Jefferson wanted for the trip, but it was years before he was president and years before the L&C trip. Lewis actually wanted to be apart of the trip when he first heard about it, but Jefferson told him he was too young, from what I recall.

I think the 1st trip was called off because it was perceived as a spying campaing I believe. Its been a while since I read about it so I may be wrong here.

Clark may have been a better frontiersman but I totally disagree about Lewis being green. He was an avid outdoorsman--maybe not a frontiersman, but he was well capable of taking care of him self in the frontier.

Lewis was a Captain, and acutally Clark was a Lt, even though Lewis tried to get Clark to be promoted--it was denied. The only people who actually knew about Clark being a Lt on the expedition was L&C. Lewis operated as if Clark was a Capt and Co-leader of the expedition.