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MUZZLELOADERS GURTH YOUR LOINS AND GO FORTH

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SGTMAJUSMC

Pilgrim
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This topic seems to be the same in every state. Someone should start a project and use the same way that General Grant used. Before he issued an order, he would grab up one of the privates standing guard and let them read it. If they could understand, he would issue the order. If they couldn't, he would reword it until the private could understand. General Lee also practised this at times.

What I'm saying is the muzzleloaders should be led by someone to take this fight to the federal level. I would sincerely help in anyway possible. I just joined this outfit so my powder is kind of wet. Surely someone will read this and start somekind of action.

It really is a problem. I am told so many different things. I have called everyone in Georgia dealing with hunting laws and it all ends the same. There really isn't dates unless you figure you can shoot with regular hunting guns between archery times. And when reading the laws, they will slip in that muzzleloaders can hunt turkey with 45 cal or higher !!! I have not figured out why you have to buy a premitive weapon hunting license when you do not know when to hunt!!!!
 
Sgt.Major: I went to bat many years ago here in Illinois after reading a column written by an respected gun writer in Guns magazine, which indicated that in Illinois, Mlers could only be used to HUNT DEER- nothing else! I was and am a Hunter Safety Instructor, so I first called the magazine editor, and then the author to learn where he got that misinformation. I was given the name of a woman " Public Information Officer" for the State Department of Conservation( now, Dept. of Natural Resources). I called the woman, and battled it out with her over the law. I asked her- no, demanded-- that she have the attorney who gave her that advice to call me! I then filed a complaint with my superiors as an instructor, in writing, citing the provisions that allowed Mlers to be used to hunt varmints and small game, in addition to DEER, and other provisions that permitted MLing shotguns (smoothbores) to be used in hunting rabbit, and birds, and squirrels. The Department finally "agreed" with me, but refused to send a letter to Guns Magazine apologizing for providing wrong information and correcting the information given. :cursing: This battle took more than 6 months of calls, and letters, BTW.

I even challenged one jerk in Law Enforcement to arrest me, so I could sue them in a test case! I didn't want them arresting my students, instead. He backed off.

Its amazing how easily the words, " Law suit " intimidate members of law enforcement, when they come from a practicing attorney. :shocked2: :hmm:

I have nly had to resort to that demand one other time, and that was when an officer was telling a student of mine in my class that he could arrest the student for possession any part of any animal, including antlers, if the part did not have the state issued "tag" attached that indicated the antler came from a lawful source. The officer claimed it was illegal to pick up sheds!

I was furious. I asked him if he haunted auction houses, and estate sales and arrested auctioneers when they sold taxidermied mounts on behalf of owners, and the survivors of the deceased? I showed him a powder dispenser made by one of my club members from a deer antler, that I won in a shooting match, and dared him to arrest me for possessing game parts without the "tag". I don't know if that antler was a " shed" or came from a deer killed during deer season. The base of the antler showed the rounding and " pinching" that you see on sheds, but is also seen in late season bucks that are taken. I don't know who made the powder " horn " from the antler, so I could not ask. But, I had fought the Department on a similar charge filed against a client in Iroguois County, and convinced the States Attorney that the Department was misreading the rules and statutes. When he finally read the statute while we were talking on the phone, he realized that the ticket should never have been issued!

Yeah, it would be nice if you could go to court in one place and get a ruling that would make every state clean up their rules language so that the average guy and gal can understand them. But, our Constitution allows the States to write their own laws, so you have to file 50 different suits, in 50 states to try to get this done. The closest we have come to Federal Supervision of State practices is the passage of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution which gives the Court the power to police, to a limited extent, any action by the state that the Supreme Court finds violates fundamental concepts of " Due Process". ( The Due Process Clause). The language used to confuse, and obfuscate game laws to the public has not yet been reviewed by the Supreme Court. I only hope such a case goes before the Court with Justice Scalia still serving. He is a well recognized Hunter, and I am sure he would not treat state officials kindly for some of this confusion they create.

The problem with getting US Supreme Court review is the Court accepts only a very few criminal cases each year to review, and most game code offenses involve only small (to someone else) fines. I suppose when you are paid more than $150,000 a year to serve as a Justice, its hard to understand why someone might be furious to be forced to pay a $75.00 ticket for a crime he believes he didn't commit, or didn't understand what conduct was prohibited by the language used in the regulation.

The general practice is to allow the highest State Court of Review to decide the constitutionality of any state law or regulation, and to let that ruling be the final ruling on the issue.

We had some success when our department was headed by a woman who had a master's degree in English, and was furious that the existing language was so confusing, she could not figure out what was legal and what wasn't. But, since she left the position to move to Colorado, the writing and organization has become almost as bad as before she was hired. We don't have people at the State level who even meet with instructors, now, much less request comments and suggestions on the rules. And we are the ones expected to explain what the gobble-dee-gook Means! :shocked2: :rotf: :surrender: :hatsoff:
 
Seems like if a state can allow a bag limit of eleven deer a season they should be able to have plenty of time/room for all sorts of hunts, many could run the same time slots, out here you may have 3000 people applying for 200 tags for a 7 day hunt, I wish we had your type of problems :hmm:
 
If you think things are confusing now, wait till the feds sit down and write up a one size fits all set of regs. :shocked2:
 
marmotslayer
those regs will be real easy for the New Pres and his group.
They will go like this are you very rich, did you help me get elected and do you swear to follow me no matter what. If you do you can hunt this time only and then never again as you will have to give the pres your firearm as it might hurt a child somewhere in the world.
 
SGTMAJUSMC
Welcome to the Forum.
I'm not sure exactly why I need to girth my loins. Hopefully just putting on the same pants I usually wear will suffice. You will be pleased to know that I did "go forth" today. It was a nice clear day with a high of about 77 degrees.

On the hunting law issues I'm sure you will find others in your State that also are confused and the best I can suggest is to talk to your local State Congressmen and suggest that they try to clarify the laws.

In my State the laws are pretty clear about when you can use a muzzle loading gun to hunt with and when you can not (archery season).
 
I have loins cut as roasts or butterflied for grilling, but I never ate a gurthed loin.

NY, amazingly, is pretty flexible. You can use a m/l (.44 rifle/.20 bore smoothie or larger) for deer during the regular gun (shotgun w/slug hereabouts) or the special m/l season. Works for me. You can also lug a m/l through the woods in non-deer-season and that is a big plus - allowing small game hunting with your deer rifle.
 
Didn't hear the one about Gen Grant, but the S-3 in one of the Battalions in which i served actually used his driver for the same purpose.

one of the nice things about the Green Mountain state is that you can call the game warden and get a straight answer, and if you don't like it, you can look up the state senator or representative's phone number in the telephone book and call them and grouse.


and they'll talk to you.

try that in the poeple's rebublik of california or one of those nanny- states.

anyway, you make a good point; much of the statutory language is complete goobledeegook and can't be understood by a "reasonable man."
 
Didn't they used to gurd their loins? Gurth, Gurd.....I'm not sure what either one means anyway. :haha:
 
If I remember the sermon right, "Gird up your loins" refers to the long robes they wore in biblical times. They would wrap the bottom of the robe around their waists and and between the legs to keep them up so they would be out of the way when in a hurry or during work(getting serious).

H.Hale
 
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