Muzzleloaders now

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

not quite, Traditions offer a wide variety of muzzle loaders. Lyman still offers plenty of traditional muzzle loaders, pedersoli, deer creek even has plenty of old stock cvas, traditions, and other brands available.

If you want to stay in business, you have to fill all the voids.

 

[Onojutta]

Ditto to both Black Hand and Fred.

Though I sympathize to some of the views expressed, I am a firm believer that you get what you pay for and there is a HUGE amount of work and craft that goes into making even a semi-custom ml'er.

And what's sad about that is, the gun that flehto sold for $5,000 he was probably lucky to make much more than minimum wage if you count the hours.

So guns are getting unaffordable, and it's tough to make a living building them. Pretty dismal all the way around.

But flehto is right though, there is somehow always someone willing to pay a lot for something. It's just getting harder for the middle class.

Sure like many things in life, the black powder sport is becoming a hobby for the rich. So is hunting in general. You wanna shoot a nice buck where I live, you better be prepared to drop some serious cash on a lease. Certainly not how my grandfather hunted.

But if you think about it, we're pretty fortunate. In the 18th century, people paid as much for their rifle as they did their house. And we forget that we get to use our guns for sport, not survival. Not too many of us are relying on our rock locks to put food on the table, or protect our families from being scalped.

Hey for $5,000, I'd say that's a bargain for one of flehto's rifles. :hatsoff:

 

[ol vern]

good grief, have any of you bought a gallon of milk a doz of eggs or a loaf of bread lately?

Why do you expect a builder to work for nothing?

suck it up and pay the price. it's not going to get any cheeper.

 

[Stumpkiller]

And I remember when a 90% 1886 Winchester in .33 Winchester wouldn't sell at $150 used for years.

BOY, I wish I had bought that one.

 

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

good grief, have any of you bought a gallon of milk a doz of eggs or a loaf of bread lately?

Why do you expect a builder to work for nothing?

suck it up and pay the price. it's not going to get any cheeper.

because its easy to thump your chest and say, I buy American made only!

Then want Chinese made prices :rotf:

 

[Vaino]

Previously posted the reason that 4 buyers wanted that BC LR.....income tax refund time. Evidently "this tax refund money" is extra money and isn't used for every day expenses.

I don't build for a living and never have "counted on" money from builds. When I first started building in 1977, the first few MLers were completed w/ a lot of "sweat and tears" involved....used 3 books for all the info I THOUGHT I needed. Looking back, I should have availed myself of a few seminars and classes to learn the shortcuts and to make the gunbuilding procedures and operations easier.

Eventually got the "hang of" building and although it's now pure enjoyment working in the shop, some analysis was made as to the efficiency of the various operations of gun building.

The result of this analysis is that I do make quite a bit more than minimum wage on a build.

Presently am 84 and have slowed down quite a bit but actually "just have to have" a build in progress mainly because it has become "therapy".

Am presently on my last build but who knows.....Fred

 

[Billnpatti]

If, out of desperation, you find yourself leaning toward buying a gun made in India, fight it! Fight that urge with all your might! It is a rare gun from India that is anything other than something for parade and show NOT SHOOTING. :nono: Every one that I have seen are nice looking from a distance (if you squint your eyes just so) but up close, you can see that they are really junk. :barf: If you compare a gun made in India to even a production gun such as one made by Pedersoli, let alone a custom made one, you will see that the gun from India is not much more than a poor quality tomato stake. :td:

I'm an opinionated old fart so take it for what it is worth. :hatsoff:

 

[ZUG]

I would recommend you look into this place:
TIP CURTIS FRONTIER SHOP, Cross Plains, TN 37049, Phone: 615-654-4445. Smoothbore rifle or fowler kits - $725.00 & up. I seen and worked on a rifle for a woman shooter and they are very nice for the price. He also has them "in-the-white" all you do is the final metal & wood finish.

 

[Mickc01]

Am presently on my last build but who knows.....Fred

How many "last builds" have you done, Fred? :grin: I know I'd LOVE to have one of your last builds. You are a true craftsman....Mick :hatsoff:

 

[Vaino]

No "last builds" until now....although at times nothing was built because of other priorities....like supporting a wife and 5 kids.

Thanks for the kind words.....Fred

 

[SgtErv]

Fred,

Incidentally the going rate that builder mentioned is fair is yours, too. In my mind, time is certainly that valuable given the opportunity cost such a labor intensive craft. That price you quoted on the last is more than fair in that regard, as well as for the product itself. I've got a book out, and while it's a little different, there are a few similarities to writing.

Sad to hear you're on the last build, but if I may, I'd like to say that you've done good things for the preservation of history and setting standards of reproduction guns. Always an enlightening pleasure to read your posts.

All,

Yeah I've been tempted by the India made guns, but having handled some Navy Arms reproductions I'm inclined to find a used one of those. You guys know if those are rare? (1766 Charleville or 2nd Model Bess?)

 

[tecum-tha]

Longrifles are cheaper than one thinks. More older folks get rid of their rifles and nice bargains can be had. There are always good rifles in the 1000-1500 dollar range out there. Parts are mostly between $500 and $700 alone and the building takes a lot of time and experience and a good equipped workshop with decent tools. This is not a plastic stock modern rifle which requires next to no hand assembly and fitting. Even a modern production gun of decent quality costs in the $800-1000 range. For the amount of hand labor these guns are very affordable. It is normal that prices double in 20-25years depending on inflation..

 

[AZbpBurner]

I work with a young crowd who seem to think they have got to have everything (and right NOW), yet someone owes them financing or funding. If I can't pay cash for something (car, rifle, tools) then I either need to save up for it, or plan ahead. Took me a few years to save up to pay cash for the pick up I drive now, and nearly that for the car I bought a few months ago. I use a credit card, but only to the extent where I can pay it off every month.

Sometimes a choice needs to be made, and I'm in the habit of looking at expenses in terms of gun prices. Cable TV, High-Speed Internet Data lines, pricey cell phone. Those are all spendy gotta-haves that interfere with gun affordability. Fortunately I don't pay several hundred dollars per month for such "necessities" and I don't have brat children who gotta have a $300 cellphone just because their friends' stupid parents cave to their demands.

So, you want a custom gun but don't have funds? You're either living beyond your financial means, or you need to get a handle on what the wife spends on shoes, hair styling, and her nails. Kids wear Nikes & brand name hi-dollar clothes to school? Why? Who is in charge, anyway? If you can't budget for a new rifle now & then, it's obviously not YOU :idunno:

Gun ownership may be a right, but it's not necessarily something everyone can afford. Food, rent, guns - you gotta prioritize :rotf:

 

[Cowboy]

Well said my friend!

Respectfully, Cowboy :thumbsup:

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

well. It ain't just muzzleloaders. If you have looked at the price of modern shell-shuckers you'd be astounded.

So forking out $1,000 for a semi-custom flintlock is about on-par with buying a brand-name bolt action & scope.

 

[Coot]

Somehow it is a lot easier to remember how much lower priced things used to be than to remember how much less we were earning many years ago. When something used to cost a dollar, that was all the market would bear. When today that same thing costs several dollars, it is because that is what today's market will bear.

PS - I am not getting older, just less young.... :wink:

 

[Cruzatte]

Prioritize....yeah that's the key. Every once in a while a shooting buddy of mine will ask what new gun I'm building. I just shake my head and tell him that every time I get a few bucks saved up, I end up with a new guitar, or amp or some other tool of the trade. Guns and guitars cost about the same. Funny how that works out.:hmm:

 

[MSW]

If you think muzzle loaders are expensive, go buy a new truck and you won't be complaining about the cost of a muzzy :haha:

aaaaaaaaargh!!! (insert cuss words here)

I hear ya - BIGTIME!!

still can't get over the storied fact that a decent four door sedan will cost more than the house in which I grew up. my parents were both professionals (my dad an architect, my mom an English professor)

I keep thinking " what's up with that??!!"

 

[Louisk]

Compared to most of life's expenses, I considered the $550.00 I paid for my Lyman Great Plains rifle quite a bargain. Unlike most expensive possessions in todays world, if the rifle is taken care of it should last a few generations. Todays households tend to have a whole lot more expensive, high maintenance equipment then they did in the old days.

 

[tenngun]

Just saw a news story on the play 'Hamilton'. A lady was going to see it just having paid $3000 dollars for a seat. TO WATCH A PLAY FOR GODSSAKE!! My first thought was 'you could get a real nice rifle gun for that"
A play!!!
"After us the deluge"