Thunder Bay
36 Cl.
I'm interested in purchasing myself a MVTC Ranger Bess and was wondering if anyone on here has pictures of theirs. I'd love to see some pictures if you have any.
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MVTC Ranger Bess
- Thread starter Thunder Bay
- Start date
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Believe most of the 'learned' are now of the opinion that the MVTC is mostly a "fantasy piece". It seems that if the barrel pieces found on Roger's Island are real barrel ends, the guns may not have been regulation Besses to start with. Still some serious research needed to know for sure. Though barrel cut-offs up to 8" have been reported, I've never seen it actually stated what the bore size was to help determine if they came off "musket bore" size guns which would point toward shortened LLPs. One FORMER builder of the "British Light Dragoon Carbine"(their name) went so far as to say, "The preferred weapon of choice by Roger's Rangers due to it's light weight barrel of .65 caliber. These carbines originally was(sic)designed for mounted troops in Europe but were commissioned for purchase by the Rangers for use as a special force tactical weapon. They were light, accurate and maneuverable in all terrain...It's smaller size has led many people to erroneously believe that Roger's Rangers cut the barrel off the much larger 1st Model Brown Bess Musket. To compare both arms side by side it is easy to see how this myth was started. Carbines were available and Roger's men carried them."
Swell idea, but probably short on fact, except that they were shorter and lighter. Also remember, if the 8" barrel sections were from LLP Besses, the result would be 38" barrel, not the 34" barrel resulting from the shortening of the SLP like the Pedersoli...be awhile before 1768 rolled around! :wink:
All that aside, the Indian made guns all seem to be a bit 'clunky' and over stocked and will benefit from stock thinning to give a much better style. I'd also recommend that you check with Loyalist Arms in Canada. They seem to get the better runs of these guns and inspect and 'tweek' if required. The little extra you'd pay will probably save some time and headaches! :thumbsup:
Swell idea, but probably short on fact, except that they were shorter and lighter. Also remember, if the 8" barrel sections were from LLP Besses, the result would be 38" barrel, not the 34" barrel resulting from the shortening of the SLP like the Pedersoli...be awhile before 1768 rolled around! :wink:
All that aside, the Indian made guns all seem to be a bit 'clunky' and over stocked and will benefit from stock thinning to give a much better style. I'd also recommend that you check with Loyalist Arms in Canada. They seem to get the better runs of these guns and inspect and 'tweek' if required. The little extra you'd pay will probably save some time and headaches! :thumbsup:
Thunder Bay
36 Cl.
Wes/Tex,
I agree with you and know all about the stories of the cut off barrel parts etc. found on Rogers island. I will look into loyalist Arms and see what they offer. I would love to get the other "fantasy piece" manufactured by Pedersoli but can't afford that so it's going to be an Indian gun. I was hoping someone had pictures of their MVTC gun. As I'm sure they are out there.
I agree with you and know all about the stories of the cut off barrel parts etc. found on Rogers island. I will look into loyalist Arms and see what they offer. I would love to get the other "fantasy piece" manufactured by Pedersoli but can't afford that so it's going to be an Indian gun. I was hoping someone had pictures of their MVTC gun. As I'm sure they are out there.
Seems like there was a picture or two a while back of someone's gun on here. Don't remember where, or if on this forum. My mental picture says a bit 'clunky' from too much wood. Loyalist Arms has some kind of an arrangement with the better builders over there and they do check the pieces, drill touch holes and make any adjustments necessary. Think that particular gun is on their site.
Well...Mr. Leap-Before-He-Looks just checked out Loyalist's site and voila, no RR shortened musket. They do have a "Light Infantry Fusil; Officer's Fusil; Artillery Carbine" in their line up. Basically the same as the larger RR gun but in carbine bore of .65" They still are worth a call, and do special order types they don't carry in stock. Only draw back is those orders only go in a very few times a year with them. Just Google them at Loyalist Arms and look through their stuff. They are very pleasant folks to deal with. :wink: :wink: :wink:
Well...Mr. Leap-Before-He-Looks just checked out Loyalist's site and voila, no RR shortened musket. They do have a "Light Infantry Fusil; Officer's Fusil; Artillery Carbine" in their line up. Basically the same as the larger RR gun but in carbine bore of .65" They still are worth a call, and do special order types they don't carry in stock. Only draw back is those orders only go in a very few times a year with them. Just Google them at Loyalist Arms and look through their stuff. They are very pleasant folks to deal with. :wink: :wink: :wink:
nwtradegun
50 Cal.
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Loyalist arms calls the 36 inch a musketoon
http://www.loyalistarms.freeservers.com/longlandmusketoon.htm
I'll stick with the NH State mrchant
http://www.loyalistarms.freeservers.com/longlandmusketoon.htm
I'll stick with the NH State mrchant
Last edited by a moderator:
Thunder Bay
36 Cl.
I emailed loyalist arms and asked them why I should purchase from them instead of MVTC and we will see what they say.
RJ, thanks for the pics but I have seen them a thousand times (no offense) but those are the first production run of the Ranger Bess and are years old. The "newer" RB's have the locks stamped and the barrels as well.
I was just hoping someone on here owned one and had pictures of their firelock in the back yard or what have you.
RJ, thanks for the pics but I have seen them a thousand times (no offense) but those are the first production run of the Ranger Bess and are years old. The "newer" RB's have the locks stamped and the barrels as well.
I was just hoping someone on here owned one and had pictures of their firelock in the back yard or what have you.
Hill;
Welcome!
I'll give you a few reasons why I'd go with Loyalist...
Loyalist actually inspects the guns.
Loyalist has been doing this for, well, a few years.
Loyalists seem to bring in the best quality India-made arms.
Loyalist doesn't put their stuff on gun auction sites and hide, even when ASKED, that they are India-made like the "NH State mrchant."
Loyalist has excellent customer service.
YMMV
Welcome!
I'll give you a few reasons why I'd go with Loyalist...
Loyalist actually inspects the guns.
Loyalist has been doing this for, well, a few years.
Loyalists seem to bring in the best quality India-made arms.
Loyalist doesn't put their stuff on gun auction sites and hide, even when ASKED, that they are India-made like the "NH State mrchant."
Loyalist has excellent customer service.
YMMV
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Thunder Bay said:
It would be interesting and informative if you posted whatever reply you get to that email.
I own two Loyalist Arms guns. My reenactment unit has both MVT and Loyalist Arms as well as others such as Pedersoli and at least one from Narragansett Arms.
Presently the Loyalist Arms guns are better made than the MVT. They may be a little clunky but they are more reliable than the MVT. Of the low cost India made guns, these have the best quality control.
Presently the Loyalist Arms guns are better made than the MVT. They may be a little clunky but they are more reliable than the MVT. Of the low cost India made guns, these have the best quality control.
I too own two Loyalist Arms guns. Both work fine. I have had to reharden half a dozen MVTC frizzens in the past..., they may have all been from a single run of locks, for they were all from the same unit, and all done at the same event. I've only had to reharden an LA frizzen once... true, annecdotal evidence, but it's what I've observed. The guys with the MVTC muskets liked their guns, don't get me wrong, and liked them more when I got their frizzens to spark better.
LD
LD
I can drive to Pete's place in Charlestown but not Nova Scotia. Not international if you get what I mean.
The post I answered was they did not list a RR Bess . what do you call there, Loyalist 36 Inch Bess? PC or NOT equal to the same PC as The NH dealer or what??
For what it's worth, I don't own a muzzleloader that is made in India.
That said, I do own a Royal Enfield motorcycle that is made in India.
It has proven to be very reliable.
The man who imports them into the US has no qualms about importing factory parts and hardware because he knows it will be well made and reliable.
He has also said many times there are a lot of small companies that make parts for the Royal Enfield that aren't worth even looking at, let alone buying.
I mention this because like my motorcycle, I am sure there are a few companies in India who do produce well made muzzleloaders.
I am also sure there are dozens of companies and makers in India who produce poorly made muzzleloaders.
The trick is working with a importer who has researched what's available and only buys from those suppliers who produce the quality guns.
That said, I do own a Royal Enfield motorcycle that is made in India.
It has proven to be very reliable.
The man who imports them into the US has no qualms about importing factory parts and hardware because he knows it will be well made and reliable.
He has also said many times there are a lot of small companies that make parts for the Royal Enfield that aren't worth even looking at, let alone buying.
I mention this because like my motorcycle, I am sure there are a few companies in India who do produce well made muzzleloaders.
I am also sure there are dozens of companies and makers in India who produce poorly made muzzleloaders.
The trick is working with a importer who has researched what's available and only buys from those suppliers who produce the quality guns.
Thunder Bay
36 Cl.
I sent an email asking about their 1728 Muskatoon and I received an email back from Loyalist arms with the following information.
Thanks for your email.
We do have the Bess Musketoons in stock.
Cost as follows:
1 of LABCARB..1728 Brown Bess Musketoon/ Wood Rammer...$ 630.00 US/ $ 667.00CDN
1 of LAFR Frizzens Stall n/c
1 of LAFGP Flash Guard Brass Plain n/c
1 of LATRH Flint leather..... n/c
1 of DRFLINT8 Texas Chert flint 1".... n/c
1 of LABA945 1728 Brown Bess bayonet with scabbard....$ 45.00 US/ $ 48.50 CDN
Re shipping:
Expedited ground parcel post insured ( 6-10 business days) .. $ 77.00 US/ 78.00 CDN
Total cost....$ 752.00 US / $793.50 CDN
/
They are fully functioning firearms made to fire live ammo ( ball and black powder).
Touch hole is drilled and the frizzen has excellent spark.Replacement parts are available.
We warranty all moving parts for 6 months free replacement & labor, and all springs are warranted for one year.
/
As the muskets arrive here 85% completed, we do all the detailing, sanding, staining, quality control checks before we send them out.
Currently, we need 5-7 days approx., to do our quality control and finishing before we ship,
once your payment is received, due to the work load in the shop.
Thanks for your email.
We do have the Bess Musketoons in stock.
Cost as follows:
1 of LABCARB..1728 Brown Bess Musketoon/ Wood Rammer...$ 630.00 US/ $ 667.00CDN
1 of LAFR Frizzens Stall n/c
1 of LAFGP Flash Guard Brass Plain n/c
1 of LATRH Flint leather..... n/c
1 of DRFLINT8 Texas Chert flint 1".... n/c
1 of LABA945 1728 Brown Bess bayonet with scabbard....$ 45.00 US/ $ 48.50 CDN
Re shipping:
Expedited ground parcel post insured ( 6-10 business days) .. $ 77.00 US/ 78.00 CDN
Total cost....$ 752.00 US / $793.50 CDN
/
They are fully functioning firearms made to fire live ammo ( ball and black powder).
Touch hole is drilled and the frizzen has excellent spark.Replacement parts are available.
We warranty all moving parts for 6 months free replacement & labor, and all springs are warranted for one year.
/
As the muskets arrive here 85% completed, we do all the detailing, sanding, staining, quality control checks before we send them out.
Currently, we need 5-7 days approx., to do our quality control and finishing before we ship,
once your payment is received, due to the work load in the shop.
If that doesn't sell EVERYBODY, I'll eat my...
...szechuan bean curd some more. OMG, it is SO hot. Hurts to put it in mouth. Lips burning. Sweating. Wow! Why would they do this? And why would I keep eating it!?
Oh, by the way, the Russians still make a copy of a 1950 BMW motorcycle in the factory they stole from Germany -- not buyin' one of them either.
...szechuan bean curd some more. OMG, it is SO hot. Hurts to put it in mouth. Lips burning. Sweating. Wow! Why would they do this? And why would I keep eating it!?
Oh, by the way, the Russians still make a copy of a 1950 BMW motorcycle in the factory they stole from Germany -- not buyin' one of them either.
For the endorphin release...you're addicted! :wink:Alden said:
For Loyalist's response...it's similar to questions I've asked over the years. They always have simple, constructive comments or answers. I've seen nothing to make me believe they're not a first-rate firearms dealer.
The only difference between that and the "tall midget" oxymoron is that the midgets are not made with child slave labor.
The best thing to do is get a North Star West Officer' Model. Might be a bit more, but the service is great and if something goes wrong, it will be fix for free. I have one and its a great looking piece, and shoots better than I can shoot it.
I researched the barrel where one of my two muskets were made, and it and the lock were made by paid adults..., if you are implying that the India musket parts are made by children ... of course that is assuming that websites and YouTube are correct, for I have not gone there to watch and purchase a musket from bench to sale.... but the same assumption is made when one gets a Pedersoli product, for the parts could be subcontracted to Albania, Bulgaria, or even the Ukraine (well maybe not this year in the Ukraine as they are too busy shooting at Russians and each other) and made by children for low wages. :wink:
LD
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