My first flint lock & smooth bore

[hickok45]

Hi, I'm brand new to this forum. The reason I sneaked in is that I'm beginning to have fantasies (in addition to the ones involving Cindy Crawford) about a big caliber flint lock.

I've had a range out my back door for 25 years, and I shoot all sorts of guns almost daily, but currently my only muzzle loader is an Enfield Civil War repro, although I've had a few Thompson Center Hawken rifles over the years. I enjoy dragging these out and getting really dirty occasionally. Also, I load and shoot black powder cartridges in my Colt SAA's, so I'm not afraid to tinker with the Holy Black. ;-)

To the point: since I enjoy collecting and shooting major military arms, I'm thinking a Brown Bess would be cool. What can be cooler than slinging a 75 caliber chunk of lead at my steel animal targets! And the Bess was such a huge part of history for such a long period of time.

Anyway, do you smoothbore experts think I would be disappointed with one of these? I live a couple hours from Dixie Gun Works, and I'm thinking of driving up there and getting the Trade (shorter) version of the Pedersoli Brown Bess they offer, as well as whatever I need to make it work (extra flints, larger cleaning jags, priming powder (4F), etc.)

I wouldn't hunt with it; I'd just lug it around my farm occasionally and sling large balls of lead at stuff. Life is good!

Appreciate any input. Never had a flint lock or a smooth bore before.

Thanks,

Hickok

 

[torn moc]

I think you would LOVE a Bess!!! But dont forget to consider a French .69 cal Charleville!!!
The Charle is not pinned to the stock as the besses are ( a "plus" in my book).
Oh...by the way.. WELCOME TO THE FORUM MY FRIEND!
You will like it here.....

 

[Rebel]

The Bess carbine is a nice gun. They shoot good with rd balls or shot loads. I think you would have a blast with one. :grin:

 

[hickok45]

scalper,

In perusing the Dixie Catalog, I see the Charleville would also be an option in terms of what I'm looking for. I suppose historically more colonists carried it than the Brown Bess.

I'm right that both were pretty popular in the colonies,though, right?

There's just something about that Bess that is appealing to me, although I know very, very little about these guns. The 75 caliber is one plus factor for me, as well as the brass furniture.

The "Trade" version that Pedersoli offers is about as long as my two-band Enfield, which is plenty long for me. According to the Dixie Catalog, it was very popular as a Trade gun in this country. I lean toward shorter barrels on both rifles AND handguns.

I probably should have posted this thread in the flintlock forum, too.

Thanks for the help.

Hickok

 

[tg]

If you are interestted in the historical aspect I am not so sure the "trade" Bess really fits in anywhere.

 

[Many Klatch]

I shoot a Pedersoli Bess Carbine. It is a lot of fun. 90 grains of 2f, a .715 ball and .010 spit patching will blow away most gongs. The Bess will keep the balls in the same hole at 25 yards and will actually hit a gong that I aim at at 120 yards. Don't bother with 4f, that big rockchucker of a lock will do just fine with the 2F.

You will probably want to get a vent blast deflector. My Bess has almost a 1/8" touch hole and when it shoots it can burn people 8 to 10 feet away. Go for a leather sling, with the vent deflector on I have set fire to a fabric sling before.

Don't forget to get a bayonet that fits.

Many Klatch

 

[Craig]

I own the Bess Trade Gun and I love it! I bought it from Dixie. Pedersoli makes the Bess carbine in a non-Trade Gun and you can probably order it through Dixie. It would be more historical, but the Trade Gun is a beautiful gun and I would not trade mine for historical accuracy. I like shorter long guns, also. I like my gun to be shorter than I am.

Remember, by owning the Bess, if someone fires at you with a Charleville, you could use his spent ball in your Bess. You could not use a spent Bess ball in a Charleville. (That may not be a real important consideration, but I thought I would mention it.)

Track of the Wolf had a short Dragoon Mustket for sale about a month ago, if you are interested in Charleville but want it shorter. It was about twice as expensive as the Bess from Dixie,though.It was a beautiful piece.

 

[torn moc]

Hickok....there is one major point to remember when deciding tween a Bess and a Charleville.
....the Bess barrel is "pinned " to the stock..whereas the Charleville barrel is fastened to the stock with barrel bands.....
I have a 1777 Charleville ( pedersoli) and plan to get a Besss as soon as possible also...
Bothe are nice.....

 

[DanChamberlain]

Does anyone hunt deer with the Bess?

Dan

 

[hickok45]

Rusty,

Do you know the difference between the Pedersoli
Trade gun and the Pedersoli Carbine? Are they about the same size?

When I visit Dixie, I will hold/fondle both the long Bess and the short Bess. Who knows, I may change my mind when I see them and hold them. Even though I generally prefer short guns, it's not like this is something I'm going to climb up into deer stands with or anything. It's just that most "overly" long guns seem barrel heavy, and the difference in accuracy and velocity is minimal.

My Parker-Hale Enfield is a two-band, just the size I like. Having one extraordinarily long gun might be okay if I like it.

 

[Rebel]

The carbine and the Trade gun are the same gun. Only difference is the Tradegun has a Serpent sideplate. You can buy the sideplate and ad it to a carbine and have the Tradegun. You might also check out the guns that MVT has. They have short Bess and for a whole lot less money than the Pedersoli.

 

[Carteret Kid]

The MVTC Ranger Brown Bess also comes with sling and bayonet included .

 

[Craig]

Hickock,

I really think they are the exact same gun. It appears, from looking at Pedersoli's website and a Pedersoli catalogue I have, that they took their Bess carbine (like a regular Bess but shorter) and browned the barrel and added the serpent side plate to make it a "trade gun". I think Dixie thought it would be eye-catching as a trade gun and asked for it to be specially made by Pedersoli.

If you look at the Davide Pedersoli website, you will notice that some of the "Dixie" items are not there, though they are in Dixie's catalogue.

Check it out for yourself, but I believe that is the case. I hope you enjoy whichever one you get. I know, once in a while I look at the Pedersoli catalogue and think it would be nice to have the "historical" carbine. Then I pull out my trade gun and forget about any desire to get anything else.

I decided against the Charleville because even the dragoon version is longer than I want.

Have fun either way!

 

[faw3]

Want to add to all this Dixie isnt the only place to get whatever from, BUT Welcome to the Really fun Game?,Sport, of smoothbore and flintlocks!! :grin: Fred :hatsoff: (ya might find just 1 isnt enough! :rotf

 

[redneck]

i would stay away from the forign trash. for the same mony u canget an semi custom tradegun. i shoot a caywood northwest trade gun in 54 cal ie 28 gauge. this is the one i settled on after going thru 6 others both french and english pattern. it will knock down any animal on this continent

 

[hickok45]

Nope, just had my heart set on a 75 caliber Bess.

In fact, I just got home with it and have already degreased it so that it can become like all my other many guns, a Ballistol gun.

Big question: how do you properly install the flint? I bought some English flints at Dixie. So, I need to wrap it in either leather or lead, right?

I actually have some thin soft lead, I think, that contractors used to use for roof vents. I've seen a couple of posts saying lead works better than leather.

AT any rate, you need to use one or the other, right? And the flat part of the flint goes up? You can see how green I am at this.

I'd like to actually get it set up today and shoot it, but I may do some more research and plan to shoot it tomorrow.

By the way, I did get the Bess carbine/trade version. In fact, I nearly changed my mind about buying one until I ran across the "Trade/Carbine" version on their rack. It's a beauty!

Anyway, I did a search but didn't turn up anything. I guess proper flint installation is a no-brainer to most, but I've never even seen it done and don't have any shooting buddies who shoot flintlocks.

Thanks,
HIckok

 

The military flintlocks used lead sheet to wrap the flint in but you can use leather or lead. You will find your own preference as you get more experience with your new flintlock musket. Go get 'er dirty and have a lot a fun. Another thing, it depends on the lock and the flint whether you use it bevel up or bevel down. Try it both ways and whichever way throws the most sparks down into the pan is the best way.
Cheers,
Cooner

 

[Tommy Bruce]

I'll just add to the flint position that you will have to try both ways, I have a pedersoli bess that likes the flat side up. I have friends with the same gun that shoot with the flat down. At any rate you have a good solid reliable gun that will last you years and be a lot of fun to shoot.

 

[paulvallandigham]

YOu want the flint edge to strike the frizzen face about 60% of the length of the frizzen up from the bottom. You also want the flint to " scrape " the face of the frizzen, so there should be a set of lines down the face of the frizzen after its fired, starting at the impact point, and scraping to the bottom of the frizzen's face. If there is an interruption in that line, it means that the flint is rebounding, or " bouncing " off the face of the frizzen, and the angle of the flint edge to the frizzen on impact is wrong. It needs to be at 60 degrees at the point of impact. Use a plastic protractor to measure the angle, by laying the base line of the protractor along the top edge of the Bottom Jaw of your cock when the flint makes contact with the frizzen. The center point of the protractor should be at the point of contact. Then use a straight edge( I use a 6" steel rule) to lay along the face of the frizzen from the point of contact to the top rearmost point of the frizzen's face. That will give you the angle of impact that needs to be 60 degrees.

As to whether the bevel is put in up or down, that really depends on the other geometry of the lock. Try the flint both ways, and look to see where in impacts the face of the frizzen. If its not about about 60% of the height of the frizzen, the flint is going to have a hard time kicking the frizzen open timely, in order to throw the sparks into the pan. If the flint hits too high, the flint is likely to just shatter, after cutting a gouge into the face of the frizzen. The flints cost too much to put up with this kind of problem.

Let us know what you observe, and how the lock works, as far as producing sparks, and throwing them into the center of the pan. That is what the lock does- makes sparks, and throws them into the pan. If you don't get sparks, or they aren't thrown into the middle of the flashpan, you have problems. Let us know. We can help.

 

[hickok45]

Thanks a bunch; that's the stuff I need to know.

After calming down from opening my gorgeous new Bess, I decided to wait until tomorrow to actually fire the thing. I wanted to see the responses here, and I like to shoot for a few hours when I dip into the Holy Black. It was getting late, and it's about the same clean-up whether you shoot ten minutes or three hours, as we all know.

So, this Bess carbine is one beautiful gun. I almost hate to dirty it up!

The only leather I had was some buffalo skin I'd bought a few years ago. I went ahead and used it, and it appears to me that the flint fit better with the flat side down afterall.

I have not fired the gun, but I let the hammer fall a few times. Results: it threw what seemed to be to me a lot of sparks. Regarding your 60% issue, I'd say the scraps on the frizzen run from the bottom up about 65 or 70%, close to what you recommend.

Except the flint does not have a perfectly square edge, and the scrapes on the frizzen are on the sides, with no scrapes in the middle.

Does that matter?

I know I'll have to get out the Holy Black tomorrow before I get a reading on how it's igniting the priming powder and such. I'll keep an eye on what's happening and try different flints or adjust them if necessary.

I bought two dozen gray English flints at Dixie, and they seem to be good flints.