My smoothbore turned into a rifle..

[wittzo]

My Armi Sport 1842 .69 Springfield has rifling now, plain as day.

I kept looking at the bore when I first cleaned it and never saw the rifling before. I would run a patch down the bore and feel the rod rotate, but could only see what I thought was a land out of the corner of my eye..Even when I thought I had cleaned it pristinely the last time..pouring boiling water from the tea kettle twice and wiping it down with Ballistol for protection..storing it upside down. The breech was actually bright and shiny when I shined a flashlight down there.

Friday I shot it a half dozen times with .010" patches soaked in a 1:6 ratio of Ballistol and water and swabbed it with a barrel swab between shots. Over the weekend, I used a punch to make felt wads and soaked them in Gatafeo's lube and tried them out today. Pour the powder, use the ball starter to put in the really tight 5/8" wad soaked in lube, and then push the ball down until it's tight, tight. When I got done, I guess the wad cleaned up all the manure that the boiling water didn't clear out (leading?) and I could see the rifling plain as day at the muzzle. 3 huge lands and 3 huge grooves. I guess I'm not used to seeing such large rifling and they're shallow.

I kept wondering because Dixie doesn't list the smoothbore with rear ladder sights, but this one has them. So my $250 find got even more valuable.

If I can just figure out how to bring that rifling out crisp and get some minie ball molds that don't cost as much as the rifle.

 

[bkovire]

how lucky you are to discover a find.

 

[nkbj]

Wow! You got a deal!
I love the Armisport .69. I gave up on the minies and use rb. The Lyman minie was too small. Just kinda flopped around like a salmon trying to get back upstream.

 

[wittzo]

Supposedly it had been fired once and put away uncleaned. It had some light rust in the bore when I bought it. The other guns looked the same condition..I used some foamy blackpowder cleaner stuff the first time I cleaned it. The second time I used an alcohol/peroxide/Murphy's oil soap treatment. This last time, I used boiling water from the tea kettle and ran it through twice and mopped it and stuff. The first two times I tried to shoot it after cleaning, I had to take the nipple out and poke around, there was debris in the drum that my other cleanings didn't remove. It was shiny clean down there, but no rifling was visible, that I could tell. I'm not used to such shallow and wide grooves and lands, so I dind't see them past the smudge on the bore. After shooting it tomorrow, I'm going to go after the bore with a brush wrapped with a piece of tough muslin and see what comes off.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Get some Lead solvent, like Hoppes #9, and liberally soak the barrel leaving a soaked cleaning patch on a jag down the bore over night. Then use a bore brush to scrub the barrel. That should remove the remaining lead in the shallow grooves. :thumbsup:

If you are going to shoot minie balls, which have lead sides rubbing against the lands and grooves, then you will need to add lead solvent to your normal cleaning process, as soap and water simply are Not going to get those lead deposits out of the grooves for you.

I do think you might give the idea of running a lubed patch down the barrel after seating your minie balls on the powder. The lube will " grease " the bore, allowing the lead to ride OVER the lube, and therefore NOT lead up the grooves so badly, if at all. I have found that lubing my smoothbore after seating the load of shot, or RB in the barrel, all but eliminates any problems I previously had with lead streaks in the bore. :hatsoff:

 

[wittzo]

I've got a couple of bottles of Hoppe's #9 already.

I used a paper cartridge most of the time, relying on the paper to act as a patch. I used a dry .010 or .015" muslin patch before that. I've read that Hodgdon Triple 7 burns "wet" and produced it's own lube. That's true with FFFg in my cap and ball revolver, but it's more of a greasy sludge with FFg. Today I shot it using the greased wads and wet patches. I wonder how leaded up my .54 is? I read that if you had lead, the patches would be a greenish color as the Ballistol reacted to it and Ballistol loosened lead fouling. I haven't run a brush through it, yet. But I'll use the Hoppe's tomorrow after I shoot it some more.

I used to have a .45 Blackhawk, it was the only firearm I've ever had that leaded up, but until now, I mostly shot copper jacketed bullets in centerfire. I reckon my lead is too hard or the powder charge too high. I've been thinking of backing it down to 60 grains, then properly working up a load. Especially since it's a rifle, not a musket.

 

[nkbj]

Hey Wittzo.
My own experience was a real chore getting it to shoot. In the beginning it was looking like it would be more accurate smooth than rifled.
Finally found a winning combo for mine...using a shotgun fiber wad under a thinly patched rb!

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I think minie balls tend to lead the bore worse than most conical bullets, plus a .69 caliber minie is one huge chunk of lead. I'd try to find a round ball mold. Patched round balls don't lead the bore and since they're lighter they don't kick nearly as much and can be loaded up a bit faster so they don't drop nearly as much at 100 yards. The general consensus on minies is that to shoot accurately they should be no more than .001" under bore size. Balls are not quite so finicky since you can adjust size by choosing various patch thicknesses.
I have no experience with .69 caliber but in a couple of .58 Zouaves I have owned I found frustration with minies and accuracy with patched balls.

 

[longcruise]

I've got a couple of bottles of Hoppe's #9 already.

I have given up on dissolving lead in ml guns. You really never know if you have it all for sure. Some 00 steel wool wound around a jag for a tight fit in the bore will remove it pretty fast and efficiently. I tend to re-apply the steel wool about three times while doing this. Don't worry about the steel wool harming the bore. It is much softer than your barrel steel.

You can also remove it electronically with a homemade Outers style bore cleaner. Very fast and thorough. I have a link here somewhere to show you how to make one, but it can't find it at the moment.

 

[wittzo]

I'm using a bagmold I bought from Track of the Wolf that makes a .680 ball, but I haven't mic'd them. They turn out ovoid, not round with a thick mold line on the equator. Using a lubed .010" patch of broadcloth, I can hit a 5" circle at 50 yards when my eyes agree with that pitiful front sight post. Armi Sport doesn't recommend a Minie ball, but a .678" roundball. The TOW mold was only $20. I twist the sprue off before I drop the ball, then I use wire cutters to cut off the excess.

A guy on another forum recommended Choreboy copper wool pads wrapped around the bore brush. I've used OOOO steel wool soaked in CLP to take off rust on the outside of some guns. I'll pick up some OO steel wool, but I'll try it with the copper first after soaking the barrel in ammonia..

 

[nkbj]

I had got one of those bag moulds from track, took a look inside and sent it back. Ended up with a Challenger brand .680 that throws .683". The Lyman .675's are pretty easy to come by too.

If interested you might come up with a minie mould for the Armisport on the North-South Skirmish Association forum.

 

[fredrader]

I found that using 100% copper mesh I bought at a craft store wrapped around a brush till you can just squeeze it into the muzzle will remove the lead pronto and not hurt the brl at all..I had lead in a Wilson Combat .45 from my reloads and they suggested the 100% copper mesh..Worked GREAT..

 

[wittzo]

I picked up some copper wool and ammonia. I ran boiling water down the barrel and let it drain, three times to get all the fouling out, ran the breech scraper between each batch of water and ran the plain brush down the bore after the first time I poured water. Before the third time, I wrapped a piece of the steel wool around the brush. I saw lead peeling off the grooves, so I ran the copper brush a couple more times and ran water again. That bore is slick! I gave the Mississippi rifle similar attention. Now they're both so clean I don't want to shoot them. For the .69, I took the stock off for the first time to see if there was an water damage, not one stain. I didn't take the barrel off the MS rifle, I have a bayonet adaptor on it and I didn't want to scratch up it's hardware or the barrel's browning taking it off, but it's brown, anyway.

 

[bingo1952]

Get yourself one of the Outers Foul Out 3 systems and a quart of the solution. Also get one of the long rods. It is available at midwayusa.com. Follow the instructions precisely and it will remove all of the lead in your barrel.

 

[badpenny]

dixie has .69 swaged minnies,i shoot them from armisport 42 springfield.they are very accurate from my musket.i shoot 90 grains of goex 2f,with the 750 grain minnie the recoil is stout.according to the chrony i'm getting about 850 fps.

 

[roundball]

Outers Foul Out

Best thing since sliced bread...bought one about 15-20 years ago when they first came out for use on my CF rifles and pistols...set it up and let it run for an hour or so and all the lead (or copper) is pulled off the bore walls...don't have leading problems in MLs but if I did that's what I'd use

 

[wittzo]

I mic'd my muzzle at the bottom of the grooves at .6925" I think I'll get the .685" minie balls they sell at Track of the Wolf and give them a try. They use the Lyman mold. If they do well, I'll get one of those molds.

I'm going to use a 40% off coupon at Hobby Lobby tomorrow to get a rock tumbler so I can roll my balls to even out the sprue marks and casting line from the Indian mold. I'm going to go back to school and take tool and die; hopefully, I'll learn how to make a mold for myself.