Myth busters

[Liver eatin’ Johnson]

Great TV show - anyway, I've seen a few myths busted here like static electricity setting off black powder etc. Without starting any new wars, what are some of the muzzleloading myths you have researched and found to be untrue? ( historical figures included )

 

[roundball]

I would not categorize my experiences as "research"...I do have opinions on a couple of things:

1) "1:48" BARRELS WON'T SHOOT PATCHED BALLS ACCURATELY"
My own tests and experience has been that 1:48" twist barrels shoot my full power patched ball hunting loads very accurately in spite of seeing many repeated posts that they would not, that they would skip the rifling, etc; My personal tests were using .45/.50/.54 calibers.

2) "USING A BALL PULLER IS DANGEROUS"
I don't believe there is any unique danger using a ball puller to pull a load. After sealing off the nipple or vent, there is no ignition source in that sealed bore and under those conditions I know of no way it could ignite.
By contrast I believe there is more danger with all the other handling of BP, opening/closing cans, measuring, pouring, charging, etc, etc, than there is simply pulling a non-sparking lead ball from a sealed bore.

 

[tg]

A few that come to mind are,

The terrible inaccuracy of smoothbores,

A trade gun was valued as much as its height in a stack of beaver plews.

I think the role of the rifle in pre 1800 times is much overrated as to usage and effect on outcomes of battles than popular lore suggests.

there are many myths and misrepresentations when we compare many so called PC guns that are offered by many makers to the originals that have survived. (cost and marketing are the culprits here)

I think the "evolution from the German Jaegar to the American longrifle" is a very over simplified and less than accurate "theory"

I had thought that most gunmakers were at least in their late teens of early twenties before they were making guns on their own, but learned that J.P. Beck was a full fledged master at age nine.....

 

[Liver eatin’ Johnson]

OK, here is one I heard years ago that I've always wanted to follow up...

Supposedly this fellow runs out of gas and stops at a farm house to get help. The farmer kindly obliges by telling him he has a can of gas in the barn so off they go to fetch it. Upon opening the barn door the motorist notices a counter-weight attached to a rope used to keep the door shut so the critters don't get out if someone leaves the door open accidently. This counter weight just happens to be an old dueling pistol. When the man asks the farmer about it, he say " oh that old thing... I got another one like it tied to the other door" and sure enough, there is the mate just a hangin' there like he said. Realizing the value of the guns, the man offers to buy them from the farmer who snorts: " ...if I did that, then I wouldn't have nothin' to keep my doors shut!" Well the guy gets the gas and drives into town to the local hardware store and purchases two window sash weights for $5 and drives back to the farm to trade straight accross for the matched pair of dueling pistols... :shocking:

 

Best myth I ever heard was "blackpowder is inaccurate". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[SquirrelsaurusR]

1) "1:48" BARRELS WON'T SHOOT PATCHED BALLS ACCURATELY"
My own tests and experience has been that 1:48" twist barrels shoot my full power patched ball hunting loads very accurately in spite of seeing many repeated posts that they would not, that they would skip the rifling, etc;

Ditto. Some people have tried until they're blue in the face to convince me that a 1:48 twist is the worst there is. But my rifle refuses to agree with them. Go figure.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I had thought that most gunmakers were at least in their late teens of early twenties before they were making guns on their own, but learned that J.P. Beck was a full fledged master at age nine.....

Ka-zing.

By 1762 Mozart had written his first four minuets and one allegro - he was six.

Other myths:

Everyone that owned a rifle in the late 1700's was a 'longhunter' and spent three months of the year on treks in the wilderness.

Everyone that owned a rifle in the first half of the 1800's owned a Hawkens and wore buckskins.

 

Hard to believe that any one could finish an apprinticeship program by age 9, they usually lasted 4-7 years and there was very little "skippin grades" allowed in the 18th century. Even a prodigy would spend a good portion of that time being devoted to mundane tasks and building ones tool kit. That would put him to starting the program at between 3-5 years old.
I believe this may be a case of inaccurate record keeping by a census taker or court clerk, or maybe a ruse to dodge the draft. That was why many of the German smiths were in the colonies to begin with.
A 9 year old was not a legal intity, even in the 18th century, and could not make contracts, rent or purchase land for a shop, or be held accountable for his business practices.
Could be though, stranger things have happened. Makes my paper route at age 12 seem sort of tame.

 

[leadball]

1:48" BARRELS WON'T SHOOT PATCHED BALLS ACCURATELY"

I believed this also, I traded my lyman trade for a traditions kentucky because the kentucky had a 1-66 twist and the trade rifle was 1-48. I never shot the trade rifle, just i read that 1-48 wasnt very good for PRB. The traditions kentucky with its slower twist was accurate with PRB and 2 deer testified to that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif. But I recently bought a .50 caliber blue ridge flinter with 1-48 twist and it seems to be fairly accurate with PRB. Maybe the same people who write that a 1-48 twist is not a PRB twist are the same outdoor writers that said a 30-30 wont kill a deer or a 20 guage isnt a good duck gun

 

Awe here we go again. 1:48 twist IS NOT accurate, and it's also VERY accurate.
Here's the general skinny on the subject, and please feel free to argue yourself blue.
Twist rate is but ONE factor in a whole system of physical facts that contributes to what we call accuracy. The 1:48 twist rate is indeed the choice of twist rates in small bores rifles, i.e. the .32, .36, .40 and even the .45., HOWEVER twist rate alone isn't the only factor. Depth of grooves plays a huge part in getting the ball to spin. So does forward velocity in r.p.s. is a funtion of exit velocity and twist rate.
The Hawken boys used the 1:48 rate of twist because they owned but ONE rifling machine and it was a 1:48, the grooves however were deep, .010 or thereabouts.
The T/C shallow groove 1:48 generally SUCKS wiht p/r/b. I just came in from shooting with a T/C .50 with .490 ball. .018 ticking, 60 grains Elephant 2fg at a paltry 25 yards and got a whopping THREE INCH SPREAD. That sucks.
My Lyman Deerstalker with the same twist rate, and load will shoot one ragged hole at 25 yards, and 1.5" at 50. Why? I don't know, but the grooves appear significantly deeper than the T/C .005 depth.
Rebuttal anyone? ::

 

Max,

No rebuttal - your statement is correct...my 54 Uberti Santa Fe Hawken with 1-48 twist would not shoot worth a flip with anything I tried and round balls would not even stay on paper at 50 yds. I went to a drier, thicker patch and smaller ball after reading Dutch Schoulz' info and got it to put three in one hole at 50 yds. I was going to sell it but I'm glad I 'sperimented a bit more.

 

[roundball]

Exactly!

 

[tg]

after over 30 years of fiddlin' with these guns I would say that the twist of 1/48 may or may not work well due to caliber, and other factors as stated above in larger bores it may not give a wide range of accurate loads in some guns,I have had a Junkar caplock with 1/48 that was a tackdriver with 45 gr of 3f and a tight combo, this is a case of being cautious when useing the old always, never, absolutely train of thought.

 

Great TV show - anyway, I've seen a few myths busted here like static electricity setting off black powder etc. Without starting any new wars, what are some of the muzzleloading myths you have researched and found to be untrue? ( historical figures included )

I enjoy their show, loved the "tree cannon" episode.

But as for static electricity and black powder, its all a matter of the elements of the situation. I hate static eletrical charges. :curse: When I first moved to Massachusetts, I had a four head Fisher stereo VCR, paid $500 for the thing new. The first winter here, I was playing a tape and reached to eject it. An eighth of an inch wide electrical arc traveled from the tip of my right index finger, over 3/4 of an inch in distance, to the metal eject button. It was a clear crisp December day, no carpet, hard wood floors and bare feet. The repair man stated that the system looked as if it had been struck by lightning! :shocking: Everyone carries an electrical charge. Some are larger than others.

I've been damn near electrocuted twice and have a healthy respect for electricity. When I was a teenager I saw a one foot sphere of ball lightning pass through a window screen and glass pane, travel over my bed, down a hall, have a fight with an electrical fan and pass through a screen door before it finally discharged on a chain link fence! :shocking:

 

[Bluegrass]

One muzzleloading myth I've thouroughly researched and found to be untrue is this: "Shooting muzzleloaders just aint worth the time."
Biggest load of :bull: I've ever heard!!! :haha:

One more I've "researched" and discovered to be wrong is: "All flintlocks are S-L-O-W, and useless anymore."
:haha:

 

[Liver eatin’ Johnson]

But as for static electricity and black powder, its all a matter of the elements of the situation

Claypipe - ball lightning in your house?! Wow!! :shocking:

As for static electricity and black powder, I was referring to this awesome experiment by highrocker: http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/mlexperiments/sparks/sparks.html

 

[Huntinfool]

I read the info by highrocker also. It's a very good site. Learnt bout it on the MLML
Chuck

 

[leadball]

I am not saying that my 1-48 twist shoots roundballs perfectly like the traditions 1-66 twist. but it shoots well when i adjusted the patch to .018 and the powder charge. The traditions shot well with .015 and .490 ball with 80 grains of fffg, the blue ridge shoots well with pillow tick of .018 and about 75 grains of fffg. all my deer, be it with muzzleloader or centerfire were shot within 50 yards. I wont take a shot beyond that with black powder and open sites. This is the jungles of northern wisc were your lucky to see a deer beyond 40-50 yards. playing with the powder charges and patch thickness, I found a good combo for the 1-48 twist. And this fall, I'm a going huntin' Natty Bumpo style /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh groan. :boohoo: /the stinking 1:48 twist debate will rage on ferever. And rightly so I guess, there is still way too much misinformation out there.
Lt me re-emphasize, I have NEVER had a T/C 1:48 twist that ever shot anything well.
Now keep in mind I'm a might partic'lar. At 25 yards ANY proper rifle orta stack one ball/bullet on top of each other. In MHO, which ain't so humble as yee all know! :haha:
Anawho there ares soooooooooooo many factors involved in getting a rifle to shoot accurately, twist rate must be considered but one variable.
Like I say, the Lyman Deerstalker stacks on r/b on another at 25 yards, 1.5" at 50, shoots ANYTHING but conicals over 400 grains plenty good 'nuff to take bambie at a 'hunnert. More Myths
You can't get enough black powder down a barrel to blow it up. :shocking:
use wheel bearing grease on the large grooves of the Maxiball.
The T/C .45 is the most accurate of all the T/C rifles(NOT a myth) the twist, 1:48, is spot on in the .45 with certain charges of powder.
No muzzle loader is as accurate as a center fire modern rifle.
Filintlocks will NOT shoot in humid weather.
Musketman, roaddog, Zonie, and Stumpkiller are the SAME POSTER. :haha: :haha:

 

[musketman]

Musketman, roaddog, Zonie, and Stumpkiller are the SAME POSTER. :haha: :haha:

We are not the same person/poster... Right?

shhhhhhhh! I told you they would figure it out!!!

Quiet, ah thinx ye's are onto us.

What poster? "R"