MYTH BUSTING: recoil associated with cresent shaped butt plates

[Mike Brooks]

I'd like to point out a couple things.
#1) TC buttplates aren't much of a crescent. When I had one I didn't shoot it off my arm. It was a .50 and I didn't have a problem with recoil.
#2 Proper architecture will eliminate most felt recoil.
#3 Personally if I'm going to build a big bore rifle for myself it's going to have a nice wide buttplate and it's going to be flat, just like a fowler. Big flat wide buttplates combined with proper architecture makes for a comfortable shooting rifle.
#4 I have a 45-90 rolling block that I shoot 535gr bullets out of with 80 grains of powder....I'm very thankful for it's big flat shotgun style buttplate..... :bow:
#5 I'm building a couple schuetzen rifles, one a 32-40 and the other a 38-55 both will weigh 12 or 13 lbs and have severely hooked Pope style buttplates that are shot out on the arm. With the proper architecture combined with the smaller caliber and heavy weight I foresee no problems with recoil.
If I were going to make a Hawken styled gun in .62 I'd make sure it weighed 11 or 12 lbs....a little weight really tames recoil.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Wingshooting definitely requires consistent mounting technique, but it's a different sort of shooting from rifle shooting. You can mount a rifle with a flat or shotgun style buttplate in a similar manner to a shotgun, but most store bought rifles will not line up their sights automatically when shouldered. You will have to move the rifle or your head to get the sights lined up properly. You don't need to do this with shotguns.

None of my rifles with crescent buttplates can be shoulder mounted without them either being canted or the heel and toe digging into my chest. Mounted out on the upper arm as intended, the rifle and therefore the sighting plane are in proper vertical alignment. For example, my custom Hawken will consistently line up its sights when properly mounted--even with my eyes closed. It is a natural pointer and its crescent buttplate, while narrow, has never hurt me and doesn't require any contortions in use. I have a feeling that for those who have experience with these rifles, understanding why some are having trouble with them is puzzling. And those who have little experience with them have problems because they are mounting them wrong or are reacting to horror stories they've heard about crescent buttplates.

This style of buttplate was actually in use for a long time. It lasted from the flint era through the percussion era and on into the breechloading era. It was used on some fairly stiff-recoiling rifles and was often a special order item. It is a pleasing form to many eyes but that of course is a matter of taste.

 

[Snakebite]

Both my custom Hawken and my southern mtn. rifle have deep cresent buttplates. I hold them just like any other rifle. Last week I took the Hawken to the range and was shooting at 100m with 120grs of Goex FF, off the bench, no problems. Held it tight on my shoulder and kept the shots in the X and 9 rings. I'm 5'10, 230, 48" chest, 15" bi's, not tall, but not necessairily small either. IMO, hold it tight on your shoulder so you can sight right down the barrel. If the gun fits, it should be fine. I've been shooting this rifle for 30 years. Even when I was skinny, I never had a problem and NEVER held it out on my arm. My 03 Springfield has more kick than my Hawken and it has a flat buttplate.

 

[TennesseeJed]

I'd bet those who like the crescent butt have never fired a hard kicking gun from prone.

I was thinking the exact same thing. I shoot in over-the-log matches and my T/C and Cabela's Hawkens are the last guns I would shoot in that type of match. A Renegade or New Englander style buttplate is way easier on your shoulder.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I've tried all my crescent style rifles and I cannot mount them to my shoulder shotgun style. They wind up canted to the left so far that sighting is impossible. I have fairly well developed deltoids, but I don't think that is the problem because even as a skinny kid the same problem arose. Mounted out on my arm between the deltoid and upper bicep the rifle is level and lined ready to fire. It's over thirty years old and has gone through several size changes with me and has always fit me. The buttplate is from the Hawken Shop--probably from the Art Ressel days.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

The hardest kicking rifle that I can recall firing from the prone position is a Winchester 1895 in .405 Winchester. It had Winchester's classic crescent buttplate. I do not recall it being a problem. Certainly I was well aware that something had gone up the spout, but the rifle didn't beat me up. It isn't just mounting these rifles out on the upper arm that is important, it is having the rifle angled across the body and this carries through in the prone position. The rifle doesn't point straight ahead, but rather the body is angled to the left--the feet angle to the left relative to the muzzle and the body can give and absorb much of the recoil. Of course recoil seems to be a subjective thing and some are more sensitive to it than others. Perhaps a lighter caliber and a recoil pad would be appropriate in these cases.

When hunting and forced to use different positions, the rifle still mounts out on the upper arm and the rifle will angled across the body. It is second nature to those who understand and use this type of rifle and takes no time to implement. It may be that "ghost stories" about the evils of these buttplates have turned many against them, and no amount of empirical experience shared by others will ever change their minds. :v

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

One theory regarding the development of the crescent buttplate was to allow woodland longriflemen to fire at enemies from behind trees without exposing anymore of themselves than necessary. With the rifle mounted out on the arm, less of the body and head were exposed to return fire. Might even be true.

It is unlikely that headbashing was a concern when these guns were being developed since the longrifles were far too slender, particularly in the wrist and lock mortise area, to stand up to this sort of hard use. If the combat became this close they would have gone to the long knife and belt axe--or run like hell if they were facing regular troops with bayonets.

 

[DanChamberlain]

Rusty

It was designed to allow frontiersmen to fire at squirrel and deer from behind trees. It was an added bonus that it worked on enemies :grin:

Dan

 

[Dave K]

That deep crescent shaped butt plate really didn't come into style until around the 1830's or later. By that time, we may have still been settling the west, but most of the guns were probably used more for food or sport.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Like about the time smallbore squirrel rifles were coming into vogue.
I agree that the T/C and clones don't have much "crescent" to their buttplates and one who has only shot that type really hasn't had any experience with a crescent butt.
I can't imagine how one could place the butt on the upper arm when shooting prone with the body supported by the elbows. I've had skin torn from the top of my shoulder from firing a crescent butt from prone position.
What you like is what you like but the drawbacks of the crescent butt are no myth and I see no reason to put up with the downside just to make a fashion statement.
:haha:

 

[hockeyref]

6'4" and 220? You better pack a lunch little feller!

HH

Hmmmm - this is gonna be interesting..... I'm 6'4" and 280, I'm expecting my Lyman GPR kit to be delivered any minute now. May need to make a modification to that butplate....

Got it, put the puppy together to see what she'll be like (love the weight and ballance). HATE the Cresent butt... when I shoulder it, it bites me in the right pectoral. I'll give it a go as is for the build, but reserve the right to defang it and make it fit my shooting style and body as needed since I fire far to many rounds to change, or to develop a hatred for what might be a great rifle.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Does it "bite" you when you mount it correctly? It is difficult to fathom your unwillingness to adapt to the firearm. Why would you choose it in the first place?

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Rusty

It was designed to allow frontiersmen to fire at squirrel and deer from behind trees. It was an added bonus that it worked on enemies :grin:

Dan

Thanks, Dan. I thought I had read something like that, but at my age memory ain't what it used to be! Dan :rotf: