Navy Arms Springfield 1863/4

[RonRC]

Another pawn shop story:
There has been a Navy Arms, made in Moruko, Springfield 1863/4 sitting in a local pawn shop for some time. I really wasn't into the late Civil War era, so didn't pay much attention, but this time I did. The exterior looked pretty good, but dirty. The bore was cruddy black with what looked like some bumps that might be pitting.

I went home and brought back a cleaning rod and patches to see what I would be getting. Lots of black stuff came out, but the bore still looked questionable. I offered the fellow a fair, but low price due to the ugly bore. After all, I was taking a chance. Deal made.

Although I am nervous about using a bronze bore brush in a muzzleloader, I tried one of a smaller size than the bore with a patch around it. I scrubbed that bore like mad and used some fine grade steel wool on the exterior metal.

It came out beautifully. This bore would have done Mr. Clean proud. If I could get my head in that 58 cal bore, I could use the bore as a shaving mirror.

The only problem left is that the nipple is really in there. Couldn't budge it with a musket nipple wrench. The flat sides are a little buggered up so a 1/4 open-end wrench won't hold. Tried some penetrating oil with no luck.

Here it is:

Ron

 

[Artificer]

Some folks have reported using a can of condensed air, such as sold to clean computers, and sprayed on the nipple will get it cold enough to come out easily.

I would try PB Blaster on it as I can verify it works BETTER than Kroil on rusted, stuck or epoxied items. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Blaster-11-oz-Penetrating-Catalyst-Lubricant-16PB-THD/202597469

Gus

 

[RonRC]

Thank you, Gus.

Ron

 

[Artificer]

You are most welcome, Ron.

Gus

 

[Colin Sprute]

I have used a small propane torch to heat up around the nipple. worked just fine. don't get it to hot or might change the color.

 

[Artificer]

If the PB Blaster does not work and I have never found a time it didn't, then the next step I recommend is with the barrel off the musket, put it in the deepfreeze overnight. The next day after work, pull it out and try again to move the nipple. The different rates of the nipple and the barrel warming up causes different expansion and that often breaks a rusted or super tight bond between the nipple threads and barrel.

My last resort was cutting into the body of the nipple with a carbide bur or cutter with a Handy Grinder or Dremel Tool and cutting a screwdriver slot in it. The heat and vibration of the cutter always loosened the toughest rusted or stuck nipples. However, you have to be REAL CAREFUL not to slip and damage the barrel.

Gus

 

[RonRC]

I am going to freeze that bugger out or use PBlaster.
I have been overly ambitious on many fix-it projects where I did more damage than I started with, so I won't try any extraordinary measures. :grin:
Thanks,
Ron

 

[Artificer]

I agree completely. :thumbsup:

Good luck!

Gus

 

[bpd303]

Pick up some Loctite Freeze & Release. It's never failed me when other methods have. Most auto parts stores have it. http://www.amazon.com/Loctite-996456-Corrosion-Release-Aerosol/dp/B001VXU474

 

[Mickc01]

No additional advise on the stuck nipple, I just wanted to say congrats on a great find and thanks for telling us your experience. I remember those guns from my old reenacting days in the 70's, they are well made and really good shooters....Mick C :hatsoff:

 

[RonRC]

Thanks, Mick C.
I have been very fortunate when I stop into this local pawn shop.
I found a T/C Cougar there for a reasonable price. It was filthy in and out but cleaned up beautifully.
Ron

 

[RonRC]

Tried compressed air to cool the nipple. Tried ice against the nipple. Applied PB Blaster catalyst and WD 40 penetration fluids. Nothing worked.

It seems that what I thought was metal around the base of the nipple was really dried out black powder. I had to chip that powder from all around the nipple. The penetrating lubes likely didn't work because they could not penetrate the hard-packed power. The nipple base was effectively sealed.

I chipped out the powder and applied the penetrating fluids (one at a time) again. Still, the nipple won't move. The metal of the nipple is soft enough that when I use the musket nipple tool, the edges of the flats of the nipple just round off. I also tried a 1/4" open ended wrench, but it rounded off the edges it I applied too much force.

Next step: Locktite Freeze and Release. I don't have a large freezer that would take the rifle. I may ask my neighbors if they have one.

I really don't want to start drilling and cutting.

Ron

 

[Artificer]

Ron,

How did you use the PB Blaster and how long did you allow to soak in after you chipped off the hardened BP residue?

What I would try next is taking the barrel off the stock, cutting the lid off a Soda Pop can, putting the breech end of the barrel in the can and spraying plenty of PB Blaster down into the bore so it comes out the nipple, then fill the can with more PB Blaster up high enough to cover up above the nipple in the Soda Pop Can. I would leave it that way overnight and not try to move the nipple until the next night. If the nipple shoulders are really worn out now, then try gripping the nipple tightly with a good pair of large size Vice Jaw Pliers to turn it.

Gus

 

[RonRC]

Hi Gus,

I filled the depression around the nipple base with the PB and let it soak for 1, 4 and 24 hours. I think that there must be some of the caked-on powder at the contact points of the nipple and rifle so that the penetrating fluids are kept from getting to the threads. I've taken a razor blade and run it in the space where the nipple and rifle meet, hoping to clear some of that gunk. That hard pack powder was really HARD. It took chipping to get it out.
I suppose that I could put the rifle in my cleaning stand upside down so that PB down the barrel would feed into the nipple space by gravity.
I could also find the guy who left it so dirty and pound him with the barrel until the nipple loosened. (OK, we all get our fantasies.) :grin:
Ron

 

[Col. Batguano]

a 50:50 mix of automatic transmission fluid and acetone will yield a breaking force about 50% of that of kroil. Soak it a long time before you try to break the frozen threads, like a day or more.

 

[RonRC]

I have soaked with PBblaster for 24 hours (the rifle, not me).
Then, I found a 1/4" socket extention with the square shaft and square socket on the other end. It fits the nipple perfectly. Next step, spray with compressed air to cool the nipple. With a vise grips grabbing the square end of the extension, I applied force. I was judicious with the force and didn't want to torque it with the typical, machismo strength of a 68 year old muzzleloader hobbyist :grin: because I didn't want to round the corners of the nipple any more than I already had. And I did't want to break anything.
No success! Nada. Zilch. Zip. :surrender:
This is the toughest, most tightly secured, threaded son of a gun I have dealt with.
Maybe someone welded or glued that bugger in there. :cursing: Maybe that nipple is destined to spend its life in that rifle.
Ron

 

[Poor Private]

As a finder of 1 myself a couple years ago I wonder what you paid for yours. Mine was used primarily for deer hunting up here in Michigan. It had only been fired a couple of times. Mine though has all the furniture but the lock browned(this includes the barrel). I use it for reenacting, and live firing. For some reason those lovely, bright, shiney Springfield barels rust when 1 drop of rain happens. So I was glad this one was browned. mine came with a box of balls, a nipple wrench, some patches, and a bullet mold. If I remember right I think I paid 3 1/4 for mine.

 

[RonRC]

They had the rifle listed at a price a little less than yours. The bore was caked with powder and whatever else may have bred in there. It was the dirtiest looking bore I ever saw. Because of that, I could tell if there was corrosion, but I expected there was.
So, I offered a little less than the asking price and they were thrilled to get an offer! I know it had been sitting there for some time. To my surprise, that bore cleaned up beautifully. The only problem is the nipple. It may not be a problem at all, but I was going to remove it to clean that area and, perhaps, put in a new nipple.
Ron

 

[bpd303]

My next step would be to shoot it some, then use my impact screwdriver. That should get it out, short of drilling and re-tapping.

 

[nkbj]

Freeze it, heat it, penetrant, soak a day.
Freeze it, heat it, penetrant, soak a day.
Freeze it, heat it, penetrant, soak a day.
For stuck nipples third time has been the charm for me.